Helping Children who have a parent with a mental illness? Interview with Rose Cuff, founder of Satellite Foundation

Welcome to the lived experience podcast. I'm your host, Joel Kleber. And if you're a first time listened to the lived experience, it's all about giving a platform and sharing stories of those who've lived experience in regards to mental health or mental illness to let you know that you're not alone, and hopefully inspire you as well. On today's show, we got a really, really special guest and her name is Rose calf. Rose cough is the founder of satellite Foundation, which is a fantastic charity organisation Victoria stray, which helps set kids we have a parent or parents with mental illness. And I reached out to Rose via email for a couple of years ago and just sort of pushed me harder than an email saying, Wow, this is fantastic. Is there anything I can do to help and I'll say lovely to me and sort of got me along for a chat and I met him and it was just just really, really warm. And I'll always remember that. I'm such a big supporter of just giving this organisation any awareness I can because I know how much it actually makes a difference in kids lives and not going to read too much about what goes doesn't this long winded intro. But she's going to tell you about it goes around an hour, we've talked about why she does it, what satellite Foundation does, and how you can support them. So I'm gonna put some links in all the show notes and bio about their website and how you can donate. And I really do think if you've got if you're gonna put money towards a mental health charity organisation, this is the one in a smaller organisation just got some funding from Victorian government. But this is the one that I would put some money behind, maybe instead of the other big brands who get a lot of money and awareness, but this is the one for me. So really appreciate rose coming on. And please check out the show notes for all the links and details and how you can get involved and donate to say like foundation. So I hope you enjoy the episode. And until next time, stay safe. So today with me is Rose calf who was the founder of the satellite foundation. So thank you very much rose for doing this. We just had some technical issues. And we've probably gone for five minutes. But I'm just in a short summary you are the the coach or one of the founders of the satellite Foundation has been around since 2009. So anyone who's listened this podcast, we're here at mentioned a bit and we've had Brad McEwen on before and Addie and people involved with satellites. Maybe you want to talk about this foundation, or this charity that you created back in 2009, and what you've been trying to achieve with it over the years.

Thanks for having me on Joe. So yes, i i in 2009, I had already been working in the area of fairly new area of looking at what experiences of children and young people work in families where a parent or carer has a mental illness, and it was pretty new. And I was so very stats became my sort of focus of work. And part of what I did was develop some sort of or CO develop some peer support programmes for children and young people sort of in the, you know, late 90s and early 2000s. And because the there was a changing funding focus around that time, and the in 2007, there was a sort of real risk that the peer support programmes that many of us had been working on to provide a space for young people to get together and talk about what their experiences were were in danger of being lost. And so naively, I thought, Oh, well, we'll just start a knot. We'll start up, we'll find a charity and we'll do the work to provide the programmes and not having a clue what that meant. But anyway, we did and myself and another person Varina we were the sort of the drivers were there were many people in Melbourne at that time who were concerned. And so that's how it started. We didn't have any money at all. And since 2009, until we received some money from the Commonwealth in 2019. And then again recently is from the Royal Commission. It was an organisation really run entirely on the goodwill of people voluntarily. So most people like myself had a full time job and ran satellite. And yeah, what is extraordinary is that we have now come to a place where we can really invest properly invest time and money and in young people being part of our organisation. It's sort of like it's really like a dream. For me personally, you're

specifically mentioned in the Victorian Royal Commission in mental health your organization's How did that feel, to have this recognition afterwards? So a decade of doing this on more or more? Yes,

it was, it was really I say to people, you had to sort of ping me off the ceiling. When when I saw that satellites had been named down the fat me programme as well. The families were parents of a mental illness, which was my life work alongside satellite. And I guess it's come at a time when the voices are loud enough, not just my voice but many voices in this space. Then at people like usual, who talk about what it's like, The Good, The Bad and all the rest in between of growing up in a family where one or both parents have got significant mental health challenges. So I think the Royal Commission came at a time when that was the it was shifting there was there was a deepening understanding of what that was like for children and young people and a deeper understanding of what's helpful, what might be helpful and what was missing. And I think the Royal Commission in their work have had very powerful stories they heard that of the truth. And I think that touched, it touched the the people gathering information. So many of a couple of people in our satellite community also talked to the Royal Commission, to one of our ambassadors, Justin Hazelwood and one of our young graduates, Jenna Healy. So it's about having big enough voices, I think it just came at the timing was just was just great. It's a it's transformative, this kind of funding. And this kind of focus is transformative.

So for people who don't know what was done prior to, let's say, your involvement fat me, but for example, what was done prior with children who had a parent with bipolar, schizophrenic is, for my experience, there was nothing really in place at all this was in Perth Metro, and then later on in regional country, as always, just family support or foster home or you'd be human services or whatever it is. But there's nothing at all that I was aware of or so what was in before satellite, what was the sort of there in place for children or for young people?

No, it was, there wasn't absolutely zero, that there was very little, and it was where there were programmes and supports and recognition, it was patchy. And certainly, a lot of young people's and family experiences were pretty negative. One of the things that was missing was them being identified. And that's where the family programme, in particular, lots of other initiatives have tried to change that. So in an adult mental health service, or or an adult service, where it's the parent, or the carer who's receiving the care or treatment, there wasn't a recognition that you have to ask about whether this person's got children. It's it's not. It's not a sometimes I'm right. But really, it should be part of routine practice. Because then only then can you find out what's happening within the family and how much children might be impacted or not by what's happening in their family and know what to do and to also, people weren't also asking children and young people what their experiences were. So there was a lack of inquiry and a routine level. And, and that came from I think, a lot of people, people working in services of fear of saying the wrong thing, or certainly my experience, way, way back when I first got interested in this work, in 1994, was in an adult mental health clinic. And me very naively and without thinking about it asking a parent, this is in rural Queensland, Oh, I see, you've got children, tell me about them. And her experience had been if she talks about her children, that they would that she will be judged, and that she would potentially lose custody of her children. So there was a sort of a lot of sort of anxiety about what to say who to say to who to involve, from, from everyone really, and leading to some negative experiences.

Yeah, it's quite astounding, when you look at it logically, you'd think it'd be like this standard procedure. Because end of the day, even though you're the persons being treated with the mental illness, the young kids involved, there should be you think, the priority of the parent, and also any government organisations in place. But you're right, it was never um, you know, my mom's concern was, yeah, you get we'd be taken away or whatever, by various people. So sort of, you know, put on a put on a good, you know, that you're a responsible parent, but you know, there's nothing really, they are very, I feel for the people asking the questions, because there's not much they can do besides ask a question. If they don't get a, a true for response or something like that. There's nothing more much more they can do.

There's also, I think, a couple of worry, that if a worker does ask, how, you know, you know, how I how are you going home? Or how are your children that if it's really bad, they won't know. But back then they wouldn't know where to get support from because there weren't the kind of things we have in place now. So it was like, Well, what do I do with that information? You know, it's really it's really hard and for parents and carers, a lot of the ones that certainly the that I've had contact with over many, many years, it's they're wanting to protect their children so they don't talk to their children about what's happening. because it's really hard to talk about your mental health, but but also that if they if they don't talk to the kids somehow they weren't know and they weren't, they'll be shielded from that. But as you I'm sure you would say, children are extraordinarily observant and noticing little people, humans and diagnoses every

year. Well, I think once you get taken into a psychiatric ward, you know, you know, things are different, right. So it's, yeah, I understand completely exactly what you said a complete resonates with me. I'm sure other people had the same situation. It's I find also quite interesting that I did notice with Greg Hunt, the Federal Minister for Health, had a mother with bipolar and who has regular institutionalise them. No, I'm sort of thinking, you know, these sort of people. And it was only something that came out, I think it was last year or something like that, I found it astounding, how the Federal Minister for Health had this sort of situation, and it was only found out about this sort of year. And you'd sort of be thinking, well, where's this extra awareness or money or for your organization's like this from a federal level, being when you get someone who's in the federal health minister, has actually grown up in this situation, exactly. And I've actually asked him to try and come on having a response yet, I'm sure he's busy with a lot of other stuff. But, um, my goal is to get because they're sick, there's so many of these people. And, you know, even though now we've got these things, but there's a lot of people in this situation, you know, what I had and people you deal with, and they've been prominent positions to actually make a real difference. So hopefully, they can start coming forward a bit more.

Yeah, and look, I think there's many reasons as you would know, why people don't come forward, particularly in, you know, in public life, the the, and again, that has changed dramatically since I first worked in mental health many donkey's years ago, that the the sort of potential shame or the difficulty in articulating what it's like and using words, even like mental illness and mental health has changed in its, it's not completely still, there's still a degree of I guess, it's stigma and discrimination that can occur when you do talk about it. And that's also linked to your, you know, your potentially your gender and your if you're a person of colour, or what, where you kind of live or where you work and how that's perceived, it's very easy for people to hang their hat on a negative connotation of mental health, or mental illness and sort of attribute that, you know, things happening to the to poor mental health and not always the case, you know. So I think people understandably, hold back sometimes from talking about these things from the

Royal Commission, in Victoria, what findings or what's what's relevant to you, and satellite moving forward? Obviously, there's been acknowledgement, and you've been specifically mentioned your funding, but what can you see from that that's going to be put in place to really help. I know that they've accepted all the recommendations, but I know there's a timeframe if these things and all these sorts of stuff. So what's your sort of out your view on that whole thing?

Nope, the final report on the work of the Commission was an absolutely incredible undertaking, like absolutely extraordinary piece of work. And it has and the investment by the Victorian Government, over 10 years, 10 point, sorry, 3.5 billion or something over 10 years, is a deeply, deeply serious commitment to changing the system. And one of the things that's been going on for many, many years has been the it's been a very fractured service system, and very siloed system where and that's just the mental health system, when you bring in other systems or sectors, if you like, that intersect with mental health like child and family and multicultural services, pairing that you know, Perinatal Services, you serve it in as so many. Everyone was sort of bouncing around in their own bubbles a little bit. So one of the things that I think is really in, and the people who find that very difficult to the end users, so particularly young people, or people who are perhaps feeling vulnerable. If we find it hard to navigate the system, imagine how hard other people find it, you don't know anything about it. So one of the things I think will change over time will be that the system will be more integrated, easier to navigate. It will be a system a service system driven by people with lived experience, probably that's the biggest change that will happen. Through this reform agenda is that lived experience and people with a lived experience or expertise or experiences of other mental health challenge themselves or somebody they care about will be at the centre of the work. So the mental there'll be is going to be new Mental Health Act, new adult and child and youth mental health services, wellbeing centres, family and carer hubs. New training for lifting the lived experience workforces. And I think those and it's happening at a very, very quickly as we speak, the system is being changed to reflect what will be we hope will be a fairer, more equitable, more joined up service system. And the first very exciting new appointment of the new executive director of the lipsticks in lived experience. Branch of the department, Maria Hagen from New Zealand is, you know, having an executive member of the Department of Health is just really exciting, you know, so, you know, people, we use the word exciting a lot, it's also a huge amount of work. But I think where we sit the satellite is that we're a non clinical service, we're a community based organisation. And we, my intention, very clear intention is to work very closely with all the other organisations that that either have, or potentially have contact with children and young people. in families where there is mental illness, to make sure that we don't, you know, the past, because it wasn't a very joined up service, you'd often see, you know, services being duplicated, or there'd be crossover, or there'd be things, you know, not very time efficient. And so I think one of my passions is to make sure we don't do that, and that we speak to each other that we coordinate, and we collaborate in a really, you know, deep and meaningful way, which is in line with the Royal Commission as well. Recommendations, it was 65 recommendations. So there's a lot of work to be done

definitely a lot. Because so how do you how do you help a family? Or how do you help get to the children where the parent might not want help? So might I think it was, like, you know, if this was with my mum, I guarantee she wouldn't have got us that we would have been just normal, where everything's fine, you know, whatever. So how do you get to those young people? Or to those kids that something where you go by the school? Or how do you? How do you get into assist? Or how do they get into assist these people?

Yeah, it's a great question. And there's many answers to that question. I mean, my my ideal would be that there is no wrong door, there is no place. There's nowhere that doesn't know about organisations like satellite, or other organisations that provide supporting information. And the whatever point in their, in their journey, that satellite works with young with children and young people, right up to adulthood, really, they they would know where to go to get support, whether they get it through whether it were very busy on social media, because that's really where a lot of young people now go to to get information. So they might Google, you know, where can I get help my mum's in hospital or in a psychiatric unit, you know, or they might use social media is probably the first thing that we're working very hard to make sure that we were noticed and that young people can find us and then when they find us they know we have you know, there's a phone number there's a there's an email there's they can a lot of them in messages on social media by Instagram message,

really many people use that many people reaching out with them. Because

yeah, they're really starting to now it's great. And so that's that's one very clear way pathway for young people. Were starting to build relationships with a school, the schools system, the Education Department, and that's a really a big piece of work. But it's a very important piece of work because schools in Victoria part of the recommendations from the Royal Commission was more supporting schools. I won't go into that now. But lots, lots more supporting schools. So liaising with the people that intersect with students, whether it's you know, well being staff, teachers, assistant principal, so they know who we are, and other organisations so they don't wring their hands in despair and say, I don't know where I can get support for this young person. Plus, we also have, you know, an increasing database of service providers across child youth, family, mental health, social and emotional well being, you know, the building our database of supports and organisation so that they know and building relationships, Joel, you know, like, just as we grow because we are, we are growing, we're recruiting not not too quickly, but and having people who can go out and just talk about what we do, you know, get just say, Look, can I come and have a coffee and talk about what we do because often a friendly face talking about the kind of programmes that we offer and resources is much more meaningful than an email in their inbox to be honest, because everyone's so busy talking at events like you know, I think place things like mental health week Carers Week. You know, what I'm hoping next year to have a to co host some sort of youth summit where we can talk about the work we do. So it's just getting out there and talking, walking, the talking, talking the talk really?

Now, do you have any specific advice for young people? Who are the parent with mental illness? who might be listening to this? What some specific actionable things I know there's a lot, but um, where can they go to maybe find information or what can actually do if they're struggling to deal with their parent, which a lot of them would might be?

Hear this, again, as many answers to that, I mean, the first thing I would say to that young person is that you're not alone. There are many, many young people out there who are in situations where they also have a family member, a parent carer, or sibling or another, or a friend or someone they care deeply about. That is, is struggling with their mental health, and that you as that young person are trying to get helpful. It's important for young people, I think to know, where they can get immediate support from if they're really worried about their own mental health, or that of their loved one, or the one they cut the person they care about. So we do talk a lot about making sure they have safety plans, and they have crisis support numbers in their phone or nearby so that they can access it. Because you know, satellite isn't across the surface, it's uh, you know, at the moment anyway, we only operate during Monday to Friday, roughly nine to five, but you know, so I would say not alone, and, and reach out, reach out for help. And you can do that by ringing ringing someone, check on social media. Remember that you're you're meant if you're the young person, providing support, your mental health is really important. So we sometimes you know, the analogy, put your own oxygen mask on first. That's very hard to do when you're providing care. And I'm sure you would know about that job when you were younger.

I still am providing you still? Oh, absolutely. I realise you have to iodine, and then it goes on to the person. Yeah, for a long, long time.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you're younger, I think as we get older and mature, we're able to make this kind of we can understand more deeply, that it is important to guard yourself and we do deserve. We practice and self compassion. But as a, as a young person, as a teenager, even as a young adult, it can be really hard to I think a lot of young people think they're being selfish, if they ask for help, or if they you know, so they need some respite, or they need support, that it's all the look after themselves, like take time out for themselves, that has somehow been selfish. And it's it's not, it's actually attending, it's being compassionate to yourself. And in doing so you're able to then keep providing that role in a way that's sustainable and manageable. I think the other thing I would say is for a young person listening is think about who else you can talk with in your immediate circle of friends or family or school or community that can hear you because by being and it might be someone like satellite that you speak to for the first time, but there might be somebody else, you know, a really compassionate teacher, somebody in your local community that you can talk with. And it may one of the reasons I think, while some young people don't share their stories is for fear of being disloyal to their family member. And that's a very real, and you might be able to come and tell this, but that's a very real fear that, you know, if they talk about, you know, how they feel, which is a myriad of feelings, they might be feeling really worried but also angry or frustrated or exhausted, also can feel, you know, that they're doing a really positive thing in helping the family member. But you deserve to be everyone deserves to be heard. Everyone deserves a place to, for someone to hold space for them, and validate how they feel and validate their concerns. And sometimes that's enough. Yeah, you know, not to have someone provide immediate solutions, but someone's a bit to hear and that's where some of those helpline so helpful that online chat the chat lines or you know, that you can just say how you feel,

and what about the I was going to say the outcomes of children who don't have any support like now because the whole reason why there needs to be investment in this is because you'll know about all the studies on that sort of stuff where you have children who have a parent with this they're more more likely to have mental issues themselves or more adverse outcomes regarding not going to university or no more increased likelihood to be drugs, alcohol, whatever it is. So what from your experiences? If you don't get involved in this? What's the sort of outcomes for, for people?

Well, there's two sides to that. One is what the reason you're dead, right? What the research, which is extensive now, both here and internationally tells us about in the absence of the kinds of supports that we think are really important for, for young people, which is, you know, access to information, getting peer support, getting positive experiences, addressing their own mental health, attending school, getting support, to attend school, having hobbies, and interests, and all the things that we know are really helpful. And getting some and having some agency in their lives, that if they, if young people don't get that they are not, and I've seen this, then sometimes they get to a point, a fork in the road as they reach adolescence, where they, in the absence of support to make sort of positive choices, and the it all feeling feeling pretty hopeless, really, and feeling not very positive about their own future, and maybe beginning to experience their own mental health challenges, which is very common in the US in adolescents, you know, emerging mental health challenges, then they can go down a fairly precarious road where they stop attending school, they withdraw from family, or there's much more conflict at home, where they maybe undergone engaging more risk taking behaviours. Whereas if they do have those supports to make to help them to make their own more positive choices, then the outcomes are better. And if you think about that, without support, they're more than twice as likely to go on to develop significant mental health challenges themselves. And when I say challenges, I mean, mental health. The spectrum of that, of what that means it could be substance use, it could be mental health, it could be a whole lot of things. They're just, they're more likely to, to not if they've got support, they're more able to sort of take a different path in adolescence. With Yeah, and I think role models are really important that role models of this where I've seen younger children say before they hit adolescence, coming into contact with a, an older adolescent or young adult, who is perhaps been through that experience of making those choices. And that's an extraordinary thing to see when you see younger kids looking up at the older ones, with similar experiences. And then, you know, they might be at uni, or they're studying for a trade or they're, you know, they've got some ideas and hope for the future. That's a very, very powerful. It's an intervention in itself. I think the one thing I'm really interested in next year is developing some kind of mentoring programme that satellite would support with some of our graduates of our programmes. So yeah, I think it's some, some of the young people that I've known for many, many years now that I met when they were children who now in their late 20s have gone through those decisions and that fork in the road. And so many of them are doing incredible things now and say that it's those kind of difficulties, but with support shaped the person they are now and they see themselves as really highly compassionate, caring patients, individuals who value difference because of the role they had in a sort of caring type role, but they didn't feel that they didn't feel there was

a hell of a lot of resistance resilience. I think resilience is number one of the number one things which indicates success, but I'm gonna say it's great you've seen people from the said very young age and have gone You seem right for their adolescence to what they come out on the other side. So you definitely you're involved with the whole stage and I presume you have a lot more positive outcomes with with people involved than you would have negative who involved in these processes with satellite?

Yeah, yes, I think look, you're right, you're dead right? The children and young people are innately resilient. You know, we know we know they have a resilience and we don't always understand or we we take seriously but they are and hand in hand with that can go some some young people find the challenges overwhelming and can be overcome by them. So there's a number of settlers, probably at least six young people who are I've met when they were first between six and 10 years old, and who are now in their late 20s. And I'm still in contact with them. And some of them have come back to be part of satellite. And that's and certainly not attributing their, that's all due to their hard work and all due to their perseverance and all due to their reaching out and, you know, seeking the kind of help that they want, when they want it and when they need it. That's the other thing. I think that the service system is like mental illness, you know, it comes and goes, it's an it's sort of, it's, it's sort of the person's health ebbs and flows. And similarly, the need for support ebbs and flows, you know, and so we don't, we need to be really responsive to what is happening in someone's lives across it, you know, and for for and for families to across the lifespan of families, and how it's understood in families that, you know, we're grappling and like many people with the terminology that's used the language that's used around mental illness, mental health, trauma, social and emotional well being, how mental illnesses is understood in different cultures and different, different families. It's, it's not a one size fits all language. So I think being really mindful of that. Even just talking about young carers is not something that fits easily for some young people,

I don't think yeah, it's an interesting term, I remember hear that term used for me. And as I say, I don't think it was solved. My mom's still making me food or doing laundry, like I could never found it the other way. But when I look back on it now, like it was a bit of an emotional incest that she was doing to me, regarding, you know, when I look back on things now, so it's when you get a bit perspective, when you're a bit older, you might realise that a bit more, but I was gonna say, what's a specific success story? From a satellite that you can that you would you're proud of? That's come through your programmes.

Ah, wow. I guess a more recent, less a couple that come to mind. And I guess, one of the more recent ones has been a young person, she's, well, she's a young adult. And it's interesting, I think the the heartstrings take us to people often think about children and children are very much part of our, what we do and what we we, who we seek to support. That I think, as you were saying, maybe, Joe, that it's when you get a little bit older, that you start to think, well hang on a sec, that was that was that was hard, or what was going on there. Like I feel I was doing a lot over the years and not really understanding what that meant, and how that's impacting on on your life as you get into later adolescence to start making choices for yourself. And so there was a young person who came. So she's been in the satellite for just over a year now about 14 months and join one of our online programmes called satellite Connect, which is a six week programme. So this was you know, in during COVID and had never really talked about her family's intersection with mental health and what that meant for her both her own mental health and the impact of the of her parents mental health on her as a person as a sort of how she identified growing up as an adult. And, and was very nervous about joining like really had never heard never been to us before. Really nervous about what it meant about disclosing how she felt about that it would be just a whole lot of people talking about how terrible life is that was that's something often people say I don't want to be in a room just with everyone just saying it's all terrible because it's not always all terrible. But also just not wanting to be disloyal to her parents in in saying, Well, I'm going to go and talk to these people because you know, you've got a mental illness and you're the cause of all my problems, which is not what nothing that is completely the first than how we engage with people but that's I think the how she kind of felt it anyway. She managed to with a lot of sort of gentle support from us and affirming before she even joined the programme just validating what you might be feeling and what parent might be feeling and it's just entirely entirely optional. This come to the first one. Anyway, she did and has remained is now a really integral part of the organisation has done to programmes that come away with us and is training to be a peer leader and takes part in has done some work. You know, we often do consultations with young people have been a particular topic. So it's very much embedded in the work that we do. And we're and also with very close friendships with other young people who. And, you know, I think that's been a really very, very positive experience for her. And I think I'm hoping well, sort of helping equipping her with some of building on the strengths and tools she has already

has a very significant impact, right, because like, for me, like, if that doesn't happen for that person, like when they get to adulthood, and they still have this mindset was, you know, don't tell anyone that sort of stuff, I can be very, very negative. And just, it's a very bad life outcome. Having that always in the back of your mind, because what people don't realise if we've children who have a parent analysis site, you probably you because you're in a situation, you don't know anything else, like the Earth, you might not know else's, if you go to a mate's house or whatever, you know, I've got a mum and a dad, they're pretty normal, they've got jobs or whatever, you can pay yourself to them, but you sort of know your situation and your situation, and that's it. But when you get older as well, like, you just don't realise how much your that situation is affects your behaviours, or your you know, your self esteem, or your risk taking ability, all that sort of stuff, until you start actually seeking out help online, whether it be with YouTube videos, or look coming across an organisation like yours go, wow, there's all these other things involved. So it's just amazing here, because it's such a direct impact on one person, which that which satellite has had on that young, that young person, which you know, it's definitely I would say, from from Vietnam, has changed that person's life. Like, it's definitely changed that person's life, rather than being a wishy washy, call this number, whatever this thing is, probably changed this person's life. Moving forward.

Yeah, I think you're so right, Joel. And I think as well as the power of those relationships, that they, that those young people when they get into it, and this is all online to a space where they meet other young people who, who get it and we have one, we do zooms in COVID, we developed our own sign language for young people to be bit more interactive in the Zoom Room. And one of them is that is that is the connect one. So where you, you'd make a sign on the screen. And sometimes we just sit with the whole session will be so much of that going on, because they'll just be this overwhelming thing. Yeah, I get that. That's exactly how it is for me. And it's, it's really, it's very validating. And it's I think he mentioned self esteem or self worth. That's because a lot of young people, children, particularly children can feel like they've caused the problem, that they're the cause of their parents mental illness, and that's a very, very tough place for a child or young person to be in, to be to feel their cost it and then they have to fix it. So part of what we do in satellite and many other organisations who are working with young people in this space, like the programmes that the family programme runs, is is is writing the misinformation? You know that it's not your fault that you're not alone that you didn't cause it that you can't actually fix it? What's your Yeah, so any young people sitting out there listening? You can't you didn't cause it, you can't fix it, you're not alone. And you are you are, you know, the all the young people I've met over the years, I just think it's incredibly resilient and also incredibly brave. Courageous.

And what's your what's your opinion on psychologists and who treating the mother or the father, because because what I remember is, we never got even told what bipolar was from a young age, right? We just knew bipolar, we knew this thing. But you don't want you don't sort of want to know about it too much. Because you might be just want to avoid the reality of it. But you know that this is a condition when someone gets this way. They go away for three to four months, or whatever it is. And that's that's what you know, what's your opinion on how young people are educated then? Or when? when's the right time to actually sit them down and go right, if your parents had schizophrenia, or BPD, or whatever it is, and how does that make him aware about the condition or actually educating them? What's that process like? Or what should it be like?

This is a question I've been asked many times over the years, in my personal position is it's never too young to find a language to help children understand things like you know, you're not you aren't you aren't alone and reassurance that their parents is it particularly going to hospital or something very big as happened that's reassuring, the best you can either the other parent or grandparent or a worker that your parent is safe, and is getting help. So there's lots of key messages that we can provide that should be being provided to children like the treating psychologist or a doctor or whoever. There's really no a nap because there's so many good resources out there to help facilitate that process of children gaining understanding. You know, there's videos, there's books, there's YouTube clips, there's On the not springing this because it's all free, but there's an article that I wrote called Talking with children and young people about mental illness on our on our website, which gives you some guides around how somebody might engage in those conversations. In the satellite space, we have found that the those kinds of conversations can happen after there's been some sort of connection with somebody else, another young person, and there's some sort of, like, there's been a workshop or a programme where they have, they have felt listened to, they have felt connected, you know, connected and heard and have had a positive experience. And then there's some readiness, other with the, within the family to have those what you might call psychoeducation conversations where, you know, a child does get, explain what is bipolar, you know, and there's some great books around, you know, picture books. And so what is bipolar? And what is schizophrenia? What is Depression? What does it mean to have? What does it look like? What have you noticed, you know, asking children, what they've noticed, is really great in because they are such noticing, they notice everything. And so hearing it in their language and in their and their words, I've always found really helpful because they have their spot on. And, and then you can build the conversation around that about, well, what's that? What is that like, for you, and often children, very young children have spoken to me about if their parents say, very experiencing depression and withdrawn and spending a lot of time on their own, you know, in bed or not less available for their child, that children will come to the conclusion that for crying a lot, that, that they're going to disappear, or worse, if they go to hospital and don't come back that they then died. So the fear of their parent dying is, is actually quite common, unless they're told that that's not what's going on message know that, because they've experienced death in the family recently by their perhaps a grandparent or or somebody else going to hospital. So there's all these sort of assumptions that we think children won't come to their own conclusions, whereas we know, in fact that they do. Come and watch I'm sure you did as well come to their own. In the absence of being told I'll make it up for themselves.

Do we have to wait a brutal indoctrination, we were sort of taken when you get to a psychiatric ward, the force first time, we were sort of taken to the psychiatric ward called grey lands in in Perth, and just basically paraded through there and, and taken to a locker room where she's just ACTG sit down. And that's sort of and that's sort of yesI mum, and you know, that's her going to help her get better. And that's really it. So I presume there's a lot of other people who had that, but there's no code, there's no consolidation of information posts that like there's no sort of debrief as to what, what's going on. Whereas I think that's what sort of needed as you said, kids now a lot what's going on regards to this six or seven. And you almost that's the sort of time where you do want to provide them with maybe information that's a bit more above them, but at least I think when I look back on it, ago, yeah, at least, you know, someone's tried to explain it exactly to me and not talk down to me, and whatever it is. But yeah, I presume that happens a lot. Because the way I sort of viewed it is that if it's still the case, but the person's got the mental health condition, they want to do anything they can to get that person better, that's fine. But a lot of the time with his children involved, that will mean getting children to go and see that person in a not good state, in, you know, some facilities and things like that.

I think then, yeah, that would have been a very distressing experience for you and for other children who have experienced that. And I, I feel very sad when I hear that. And I also know that it's it has changed is changing, it has changed. And it's it's everyone's it's everyone's work, it's everyone's business to make sure that children get given the right information, they get ways of staying connected with their parent that are really safe, and that the parents and the child or children feel it might be writing letters, it could be phone calls, it could be emails, it could be photos, it could be drawings. And the fact me programme, again, is doing a lot of work in this area in terms of sort of providing information and training to workforces that that might be the very people that would be facilitating contact from a child to their parent in hospital. So there's a lot of work still to be done to make that ongoing, where possible. The connection is the threads of connection are held whilst the person is unwell or in hospital or receiving treatment and care. So that the it's a win win because the parents, you know, parents want the best for their children and they want to stay in contact with their children, but it's got to be it's got to feel safe and inclusive and also appropriate to their age. Ah, in their cultural background, and it's a whole lot of stuff, but it's possible. I've seen it done really well, you know, I've seen it done just beautifully where, you know, there's, there's children are briefed beforehand that this works out, you work out who's going to take them to the to the to the ward, if it's award, the staff know, the staff are briefed, the children have a chance to ask questions, it's set up in a really in a family room or something similar with toys and books and children can play. So, and again, did some debrief afterwards, I think the key word is safe, I think it's gonna feel safe.

And even the home environment, because, you know, as you said before, it's not the home environment as well, like, when they let the person out and stuff, you know, what's sort of in place, from that point of view, whereas, you know, for us, I don't facilitate, but you know, three months stayed in sort of that person's better than, you know, back to normal and, and sort of a way you go, and you might have a social worker pop in every couple of weeks, but you still have another, you still have a time frame where you're just alone with that person, and then, you know, hope they do the right thing. But I was gonna say, your opinion was up and moved the whole mental health awareness movements, obviously a big thing in the last, let's say, three or four years where it's a massive, like, it's, there's a lot of mental health awareness. There's a lot of podcasts, there's a lot of people doing things about depression and anxiety. And there's all these organisations and charity things, but we both know that there's a lot more towards than just that, that sort of area. So what's your whole opinion on the Mental Health Awareness movement? And what where does it need to go next, because if you look at the actual, let's say, suicide rate, or whatever, like, even though there's all this awareness going on, it hasn't really declined at all, or stayed around the same mark, especially the last five, five years. So what's your opinion on all that sort of awareness? And what's the sort of the next step beyond that? Or where would you like to go?

But I think having an awareness about about health generally, I mean, mental health is part of our overall health and well being. And certainly we can learn a lot from our First Nations peoples about how mental health and well being is part of overall, it's not separate, it's part of what happens in your in your life and how you experience whether it's mental health, it's it's, it's it will integrate it, it's not a separate thing. And it's very much bound up, and how how we manage challenges is all bound up in our community. Our spirituality, our friendships are put the purpose of meaning in life. And I think it would I, I think sometimes some of that gets lost in translation in the mental health field. And we can focus too much on mental illness and mental health, and not bring into account the whole of a person's life, and all the things that impact on our well being. And people. Too many people live alone or lonely living with loneliness and in isolation and in poverty. So there's some social justice equity lens that I like to talk about as well, that whilst we have a system that's inequitable that people are going to experience challenges to all kinds of their health, including their mental health. So that's so I guess that's something that I feel strongly about. That should be more discussion about that. I think the other thing is that it's a it's a very nuanced thing. You know, it's at satellite, we we, we talk about creativity a lot. And I think creativity is at the heart of everything that we do at satellite. So our programmes have got a creative focus. And that's about bringing conversations about mental health and well being into a space where we invite we we offer creative platforms to have those conversations. And in doing that, it's saying, Look, we know that you or they or people are, you know, having, really, it's not saying that I haven't got challenges with their mental health, or it's hard, but that there's other things that we can do in our lives that directly what's not challenged, but directly address that in positive way. So it's discovering It's discovering parts of ourselves that are often that are hidden, and can be very positive experiences for people in bringing away drawing away some of that as well as the challenges. So in satellite people often say they didn't think they were a creative person, that I'm not a creative person, I'm going I can't do that. But when you do it very, very gently and carefully. It really helps people I think, to see themselves in a different light. So I think that's that's important. Going back to my first comment, I think we just need to do better at you know, that whole idea of T takes a village, you know, it takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a village to, as you would know, to keep from your experience of being with, you know, taking on the role you have with your mom. And the need for that to continue that we we need to be I think, as a society, particularly in a western society like Australia, a so called developed country, we need to pay more attention to the scaffolding that's around each individual. And the kind of outlets people have the kind of positive input people have the spaces where people feel listened to, and validate. And that's not always mental health spaces. It's not mental health services, it's it could be a community garden, it could be a church group, it could be, you know, create a mice relative of mine does a crocheting group. And that's been really important in turning around her mental health and well being. So I think that's, that's a bit of a rant. But that's how I That's how I feel like that's why I like being part of the community based organisation now, because I'm not saying that we don't need the, you know, we do need clinical mental health services for people who, who need that kind of intensive support that and with, with the, the new Mental Health Act, the words well being coming in, and now part of the language that's being used by the government, and by the Department Health, which is really

amazing. I think the integrated stuff you said about health is really important. I think, you know, we want it you're right, you're bang on like you, we want to treat mental health awareness as a separate thing to physical health and all these other things. Whereas we know, are you eating well? Are you exercising, doing these basic things, drinking plenty of water, relate directly to your mental health yet, sometimes when someone says I'm feeling down or whatever, we just want to these things sort of are even mentioned or even brought into it. And the community aspects really important. I know, for me, growing up playing Team sports is very important, because I didn't have a dad or anything. So having having that male sort of figure there, take an interest in you. And you get a bit of self confidence. And being in a team and things like was hugely important, right? Even that doesn't directly relate to helping me on the home front, it really did. Well, it did help me in that in a lot of life. And it wasn't directly related to that. But it was that integrated health, having a community aspect and not being lonely or anything like that, you'd always been busy and things like that. Whereas you're right, the support around the person is so important, because I remember when we're in Perth, we didn't have any fat relatives. So when mum went in a psych ward, we'd be with the foster family or foster home or whatever. And I was going to, and I started getting a lot of trouble at school, then we moved toward Well, our mom was one of 11 When we went there, we used to go grandma's house, or aunties and uncles, and we had people actually around us who actually cared now we knew that, and then we sort of saw went from public, I believe I stayed in Perth, or would have been in jail by the time of 18, compared to having that sea change, same circumstance with the home. But just having that extra community around you and that support and stuff, you know, really, you know, just made made the world of difference. And it'd be a lot of people who don't have that, who would then have that adverse outcome. Whereas, you know, having something like satellite, for example, whereas you had that spread across Australia, for example, or other organisations similar to that will just make a world of difference in, you know, government's all about money as well, if you look at the money, having someone in jail having someone not be a productive member of society, over 60 years, or 50 years, compared to maybe if we had a bit of intervention, when they were younger, the future financial seminar, it's not a financial thing we're talking about. But from an economic point of view, it just makes so much sense to have that integrated health, that community, with young people from a young age just financially for the economy just makes a hell of a lot of sense long, if you think long term, as opposed to let's say, the three to four year election cycle, whatever it is. Spot on. But yeah, but I'll often say I say the mental health awareness, as you would know, you deal with, you're competing for funding against all these other things. Whereas you know, sometimes I feel we don't stick to the basic stuff when we're talking about mental health. He said the community stuff isn't the full integrated health solution and why men this is a big thing and stuff like that, well, how do we get these people connected and stuff? So that stuff that sort of doesn't go really said, especially when it's watched a lot of the Yeah, I see it talked about a lot.

And something that we can do with satellite, I think in going back to this idea of the village and that's a beautiful story about you, moving from person one ball and having that almost like a tribe of people that you were able to that absorbed you and provided a safe space for you. And yeah,

we had to because what was happening was my mom kept going into a psych ward and my dad was not in the seniors out working overseas. But mom's brothers and sisters didn't know my mom didn't tell them about anything going on. Yeah, so study and now and then once they get the the grandmas paid for uncle to drive over and basically bring us back because that can happening all the time. And I really, really hadn't if that didn't happen, when I was 13, I reckon I would have been in jail or would have been dead or some sort of bad things or wasn't on a good path. So, yeah, but yeah, it's hugely important.

Yeah, it isn't. And I think part of that also, what organisations like satellite and others can do is actually really try and support family where it's appropriate, like, you know, like your story, to sort of provide support to the young person to sort of be understand what they can do as extended family and community to sort of to provide that sort of scaffolding and that buffer for that young person, you know, whether it's, you know, place to go and live, or, you know, we all have this meaning in our life, that's critical for human beings, we'd have to have purpose and meaning. And so, cuz sometimes families can get, you know, very fractured in these circumstances, for all kinds of reasons. And that's often Yeah, it's complex that, that not all families stay together, not all young people want contact with their families, because that might be the source of the trauma that they might have experienced. So, but I think it's important that we that as services we take it also time we take the time to find out who is in this person's life. You know, what level or making science I don't know if this is going to be you can see me but if you got the person, the young person, the middle, what are the kind of rip that sort of the rings around them? And how far out do they go? And what can they provide? And are there people out there that haven't been supported to provide support to this young person or this family, so and that requires time, and up until now, services just haven't had the time to do that kind of work often.

So I think your organisation as you said, everyone's gonna have a purpose, right? Whether they find purpose in their job, or they've got a hobby, whatever it is, but your organization's satellite, if someone doesn't have that community around them, it provides an instant community and I've met some of the people I've seen heard about some of the people who are involved in satellite, and you can see, like, if they didn't have satellite around and that community, like who knows what would be happening to these young people? That's a massive concern. Like, it's fantastic that the organisation is doing this, but I think well, why isn't there not more money? Or why isn't there not more organisations, because mental health awareness is ever never doing this sort of stuff? Because it's so bloody important because it just has that direct impact to these kids lives, and as a long term, being productive, long term member of society and without it, who knows? What would happen to some of these people? Does that work? Do you do sort of under? Like, does that sort of make sense towards some of the people involved in satellite?

Look, I think, you know, yes, I do. Of course, I do believe that we, as an organisation organisation, we provide a place a space for young people to come and feel valued and to feel heard, and to have their voice amplified and to gain some, you know, we, you know, to gain some some knowledge and skills and make friendships Absolutely. And in an ideal world. Well, in an ideal world, probably, we wouldn't need as much because if it was a really equitable society, and that meant that people's health and well being was truly people were able to attend to their health and well being in a really meaningful way, not just their mental health, but their overall health and well being, there will be less of a need for organisations like satellite, maybe, you know, that I think we're a long way off that. And I think that it would be, you know, in our, we had it were in our planning, sometimes we dream about going national, you know, maybe one day we might, you know, become a national organisation, my, my, my vision is that it doesn't matter what, you know, Victoria, that, you know, ultimately, it doesn't matter where you live, what part of Victoria, and maybe then Australia, where you live, you would know exactly where to go when you need it most. And get what you want. Not something that's not a good fit, you know, and it's free. And it's got beautiful, you know, a whole range of different programmes of funding, but I guess call them programmes for now, that cater for a whole lot of different needs and once and, and provide a positive, positive experience and where they meet other young people. And to provide those pathways for those young people to go on, like I was saying before, to, to really flex to spread their wings because they will get these beautiful wings to spread their wings and find their path in life. And I have no doubt that they're the experiences that people like you have had extraordinary people Powerful in shaping them into being, you know, really important and valued and compassionate members of society? Well,

yeah, definitely think they are I don't think anyone could ever parent benevolent it's not have a high level of empathy or resilience and stuff, but you might not realise that until you get a lot older. So, you know, you might, might not might take a long time, but we have satellite roads, what are your plans? You've got just got some funding from the government is fantastic. So what are your plans on expanding settlers eat more programmes, more places for programmes? What do you plan on doing?

Probably both all of the above. So where are we just six months in for the with the, with the funding, so we have been running programmes right from the centre, then of course. So we have a number of core programmes that we will start to to provide the will sort of start to double those in the second half of next year. Plus introduce some new programmes. So all our programmes will our new programmes will be co created with the young people in the satellite fold. And by crud, co creation, I mean that it'll either be an idea that one one of them has had. And then we work with that young person to develop that into an actual offering. But might be we're establishing we're we're in the process of just taking on a youth coordinator who's beautiful, and she's only 21. And so part of her job will be establishing our youth advisory working title Youth Advisory Group. And they will be at the heart of what we do. So really expanding and growing the voices of lived experience and amplifying the voices of young people in satellites, both within us and then out to the outside world. So also reaching more into schools and potentially partnering with other organisations that work already work in schools not not, you know, adding, replicating that bringing in a sort of special brand of satellites into those programmes. The number of new programmes that we're thinking about and running more so the moment we run, one camp per year, and will be slowly increasing, the camps are very popular, we run that will run two camps in this calendar year, and then 2020 to 23, we'll be aiming at running for so just expanding, but will still offer both in person and online programmes. Who knows what will happen with it online with the in person that and all our programmes, as I said, I've got a creative focus. So we have a workshop called Creating Connect, which is a day workshop where we go and offer that in a particular place, and then you know, like a location with young people. I'm also very keen to do more, you know, have young people take part in, you know, podcasts and webinars and really privileging the voices of young people, because they've got their, their, their, you know, they're the ones with the answers, and also families. So, you know, we, we have a family liaison worker, we're bringing in another person, so recruiting, were busy recruiting as well. And we're just about to take on an evaluation, an external evaluation team, we're just in the middle of interviewing for that. So that we will be able to demonstrate that will hopefully, by the end of the four years that what we do is is worthwhile. And and that, you know, you mentioned value for money. I think that's really important to talk

about that. And I'm trying to show I'm coming to what she was saying trying to show impact or measure impact. Yeah, which I just felt like, it's like, it's such a no brainer, like I understand you could just show it, like on paper, but like for me, like how you logically just from a using a deductive reasoning, not know that that would have an like an impact. Like, I remember reading a report to the commissioner of bipolar Australia, Dennis admission to the Royal Commission, they quoted a figure that their estimated bipolar cost to the economy is like $7 billion or something for in one year. That's all the hospitalizations, Miss sick days, all this sort of stuff. And I just couldn't believe like, you know, well, that's that's the financial problem, like so. Yeah, I know, I know that you have to do it. But like, I just can't believe even why you have to do it from from my perspective. But yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to demonstrate it. But it's just Yes.

Well, I think it's actually I think it's critically important for us at this time for satellite because we've been funded by the Victorian government and taxpayers money. And we take that very, very, very seriously. And so we really want to do our hardest work our hardest to demonstrate to the government and therefore, the taxpayers and the public that this is what we've done. And this is what has been most useful and has made a difference over the four years. And in some parts of what's being evaluated, they're hard that it's hard to measure because you're, you know, you're looking It's trying to learn from young Pete children and young people, you know, a whole set of surveys instruments, that doesn't really cut the mustard. So I'm looking forward to being really quick for the that process to being really creative in the same way that we are. Got lots of ideas about how we can do that. So yeah, that's, that's we're also in the middle of doing that. And training the facilitators to run the programmes. Half of them will be peer facilitators. So yeah, it's busy, expanding, you know, expanding with responsibly, so we don't grow too quickly. You've got to grow. But you've got to do it. Mine's always

scaling problems when you try and put on a lot of people and scaling up. But I was gonna say, because I've loaded up a satellite to base like that brand, right? So we'll see if people think of depression or anxiety, I think beyond blue, most likely. Whereas if you've got parents going minimalist with a kid satellite, you know, that's almost where I'd love to see it go where's especially schools, I think schools is the key. If a teacher knows what, what's got this cute, he's got this, what's the resource? What, what website? Or what can I actually do from that if they can instantly start having that recognition? go bang? Like how what's your plan to get at teachers is to do stuff on LinkedIn, for example, where a lot of teachers are to connect with teachers online, put content in there, or how do you? How are you going to plan to get into the teachers, I think it's a really important one, because they're there, they will know, they're, especially in primary school, they will know more in high school, they will know, probably the most likely which kids have got these sort of these situations. Yeah.

So we're certainly making some good connections with the Department of Education. And we need to be very mindful that there already are, there's some great work happening in schools across a range of different organisations. So again, not not duplicating what other people are doing, and that really tailoring it to this particular group of young people. So we we did a small, little small pilot at one of our Dakota schools, just wrapped up recently, with some students across the levels, actually, who had been identified by the well being coordinators, having a parent with mental health challenges. We think that's actually more of a universal approach in schools where you talk to the whole year level about these kinds of issues with it, with a very, very careful and safe way for students who might identify as having a phone man with a mental illness, to then contact us satellite or, you know, another organisation. Because the speaking of in schools hard, you know, for many young people school, a lot of young people actually school is their safe haven to place they go to get away from worrying about their mom or their dad. And so we want to walk that line between saying, Well, you know, we want to go into schools and talk about what might be happening and to sort of invite young people into our spaces without them feeling really fearful or feeling they're going to be bullied, or they're going to be, you know, laughed at. So I think there's the we're having those conversations right now. And I think, going through the work the Student Wellbeing network, the well being coordinators, and the Student Support Services and the well being and there's a whole new, there's mental health practitioners in secondary schools, there's bu there's a whole lot of, you know, contacts to be in relationships to be carefully developed, to make sure that we get our messages out there and our conversations out there without Yeah, doubling a long

line, the two years, I reckon for since I've sort of known about or two, three years, like, it's definitely moved a lot, like even with your staff, and like the website and all that sort of stuff. It's fantastic, where how quickly it's going and all that sort of thing. I'll let you go after one question. Just gonna say what why are you doing what, it's a lot of time, especially back, you've been doing it for a long, long time, and you've had sort of recently this recognition, but you know, the good work you do, but now you're getting this sort of external government, you know, sort of approval as well. So why do you do what you do? Because it's a hell of a lot of time and you're very, very busy. What do you get out of it?

Very, ah, my family would say I'm stubborn, but I just sound determined, because sevens a bit of a loaded word. Look, I landed in I landed on this, I'm a trained as an occupational therapist back in 1977 to 1980. And part of that training was in psychiatry, and it just landed in my brain and in my heart, and I just thought this is what I want to do because it felt so it's that social justice, that sort of inequity lens that even as a young person back then I just, I felt so outraged by it. So there's an outrage that I feel sometimes Still, when I think about the, the blame and assumptions that people make about mental health and well being is the first thing, probably, and look more recently. To be honest, I think, hearing some of getting, having conversations with young people that I've known for a long time. And the stories they talk about being part of the programmes that I we did, when they were children, then to adolescence, and the, the really, I mean, I should, one day I'll write it up, but I will, because the extraordinary impact it had on their lives. And what it meant to them to have that place to meet other kids to meet positive people in their lives, whether it was you know, someone like me, or the people with whom I worked. This is way before satellite. That's, that's important. That's important for anyone to have someone who believes in them, you know, someone who is a teacher or, or believes in them and has, and their worth, and their and their pack their family member their parents worth, and doesn't, it doesn't judge and just sees a future for them. And because I'm a very optimistic person, that's how I how I did it, that's how I always engaged in the main conversation, not not in a sort of Pollyanna ish way, but just Yeah, so I think that's more recently been very, very powerful for me to, to reconnect with them. And, and the other thing that Joel The other thing is people like us people that that believe in this area of work and are prepared to be open and be vulnerable and share their stories. Whether it's within I've got an amazing amazing team at satellite, absolute incredible, credible young people and by sharing stories, and you've done so much through your lived experience podcast to get those messages out there. And you know, to make a difference

a hell of a lot more money is my very small I'm just doing it because um, I as I said, I get frustrated when there's, there's all this mental health awareness, which is fantastic and integrated health is just talking about this focus on this one area of it, and there's so much more and there's other areas to it, but um, we just need more people that say like Greg Hunt, and other people like that actually promoting their services and stuff like that, because these, there's a lot of well, there's a lot of probably a lot of well known people, and by Brad McEwen for example, that's what he does is fantastic. Like, yeah, he's fantastic. Like, you know, I'm just a small podcast and he said, Yeah, no worries and travel all that way just to do that. Whereas, you know, a lot of other people who probably got a similar maybe similar experience to Brad just don't share it at all and in a position of prominence, which I think is doing a massive disservice because it's, um, it's so powerful to have people that share it and be so open with it.

It is yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, the more the better.

Well, thank you very much for your time rose. Really appreciate everything in satellites, I didn't really sign because I'm just gonna put them all in the descriptions and stuff like that. So I'll put all the links there and social media and all that sort of stuff and they are very special person. So thanks for doing what you do rose it's, it's a massive difference what you do and I'm real passionate about what you guys to because I just No, I never I never had the benefit or the fortunate to do a programme but I just know it would have helped me even though I might not have said that at the time if I was doing it was pretty stubborn kid and pretty, pretty silly and stuff. But it would have definitely really really made a massive positive impact. So hopefully, you know, the satellite message in the brand just keeps getting bigger and stronger gets a lot more money you know, when it comes to get some more funding hopefully gets a hell of a lot more and we get you making direct impact in people's lives which I don't think a lot of people can say so it's fantastic and myself and the team and thanks for your time I really appreciate it rose

it's a pleasure jog you take care and thank you again. Okay bye for now.

There you have it rose calf What a fantastic and remarkable lady to do what she's done is absolutely astounding and just why just wanted to have her on and I'm Thank you very much for a time was supposed to for 45 minutes and we went for a lot longer than that. And I'll in the show notes, you can check out all the links to satellite and if there is one organisation I would say to donate your funds towards you're going to pick one satellite is one that I hope you do. And they just do remarkable work and it's so great that they've been recognised in the royal commissions report specifically even silent and just a credit all roses hard work in a team and that organisations made a difference in so many young people's lives and made them to be productive members of society. And that's the whole point of doing this is raising awareness to this issue because, you know, they as as children with a permanent serious mental illness or parents, you know, it's very confusing. It's very hard. You got to deal with a lot of things and you don't get much support. I feel in an organisation like satellite is giving people support and who knows what path you know, young people would Take without an organisation like satellite in their lives and I know for a fact would have directly made a difference in my life growing up and that's why I'm so big on this organisation. So that's enough for me but if you love the podcast and you made it to the end really, really thank you please share, subscribe, leave a review might take a minute to do that, but I really appreciate it it helps to show the father's social media, check all the stuff out. And next week I'm looking forward to giving you another episode of the lived experience and until then, I hope you have a really good Christmas and make sure you stay safe