How to create a social enterprise with purpose! Interview with TradeMutt workwear founder, Ed Ross

So hey guys today with me is Ed Ross, who is one of the founders of the social impact work where brand trade is by for traders called trademarks. So I've got it before you want to get on wearing this is this is some of the trademark key here the great funky color work wear and maybe your talk is tell us a bit about the the trademark brand. The story I didn't have it all came about.

Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks, mianzhu. Oh, my Yeah, trademark. We're a social impact. workwear company, founded by two trainees, Danielle and myself. We started March 2018. Dan lost a close mate to suicide here in Brisbane. Tragically one weekend in the end, it's sort of 2015. Dan and I both TVs by trade. We're working on job site in Kenmore. Yeah, Dan got a phone call from his mate on the Friday afternoon. Just absolutely delighted to say that he just secured a secured a, you know, an apprenticeship as a mature aged carpenter. He was supposed to start that job on Monday. And yeah, tragically his life. Yeah, he took that on on a Sunday morning. So he never ended up starting that, that job. And it was quite an eye opening experience. Yeah, obviously, for Dan and I, I didn't know Dan's May, directly, but I was sort of indirectly affected by his death through. Yeah, Dan's grieving, and his time at work. And that sort of mourning process, the months following. And then we'd already had an idea for some funky work shirts, an idea that just sort of sat in the background there on long days on the tools out in the sun here in Brisbane. And yeah, after Dan's mate, passed away, we thought, Well, why don't we, you know, try and make a difference in this space and tie the two ideas together, and we learnt what social enterprise was and profit for purpose. And we just, we just went straight at it. And yeah, sort of three, three and a bit years down the road. And it's been an amazing journey so far.

This is three and a half years ago when you started. And so what did you say it's pretty, pretty big, big change. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur these days, but you stumble across a really big thing, which, which I think is going to be massive thing moving forward for a lot of companies and you sort of seem dabbling in it is the profit for purpose, or the social enterprise type of thing. And I think three and a half years ago, there's many people who've had that sort of thought to do that. So can you just tell us a bit little bit about the profit for purpose and how that all came together? And, and from the early days?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um, you know, I think Dan and I both had a fairly keen interest in in business and business models. for quite a while, I'd gone to college down in Victoria, and then agribusiness diploma down there was always Yeah, looking at different business ideas and how people, yeah, had had had their own businesses, what they did for a living and how they got into it. And then when we found out though, there were people sort of dabbling in the space of like, Thank you water and stuff like that doing a profit, repurpose. It was just something that we thought it was an absolute no brainer. It's mean, it means what, you know, why wouldn't you do this, you can have a for profit business that can, you know, make yourself employed, something that's scalable, and something that's helping a range of people and socially outcomes through doing the business you're going to do anyway? So yeah, we sort of learned what it was. And when went for it, not even without a second thought it was just, that's exactly what we want to do. We want to make as much social impact as much social change as we can, through this really cool business we've been able to create.

Now in the early days, was it a part time thing? Or did you just go full stop, and you went full time into it? or How did it happen?

I suppose it's like all startup journeys. It was just, you know, very big days on the tools. Were working most weekends to save up some cash for us to be able to start it. We were doing, you know, late nights during our business plans, having meetings with people after work, I remember we were Yeah, meeting with people through Spring Hill and, and in the city and RV parking and loading zones with my big guy locks and dual axle trailer and Dan to be parking the company. Truck we were working for here in loading zones and stuff like that, and ducking into meetings looking like we were trading still. And yeah, it was just a lot, a lot of time spent. After hours hustling to make it happen. We were fortunate enough to get picked up. We're at a pub one afternoon having our Thursday night shareholders meetings, we used to call them and was the first time our samples that arrived from overseas that were right. And we thought why don't we wear these down to the pub and see how they go so worn down there. And it was Dan and I are our mate Ross and they have three hours. And we had over six different people come up to us and ask us what the shirts are about. And we're like, holy shit, these things are working. They didn't even have this is a conversation start from the back as of yet. And the last person that came up to us was some of the work for local rag paper here in Brizzy. And next thing we knew were on the Seven News and that was it. We Yeah been full time monster ever since.

That's a really interesting story because I always say test your product, you know, send out survey monkeys asking questions. But did you realize what you're doing at the time by doing that in the pub? Boy?

No, no, absolutely not. I mean, it was just, it was just us doing what we didn't know any better. We're just doing it. We thought, Well, we've got a maid now why don't we weyermann and see how they go. Yeah, warm down there. Also remember the afternoon at dance place into on, try them on and very hot, were these really cool, we finally got something we can actually tangibly touch and put on our ramp on our backs. And yeah, it was just sort of it was just a whirlwind really, still is?

Do you think having that purpose with the mental health aspects sort of helps you push further into stuff as opposed to just being like an independent, let's say, work with a brand in the early days?

Yeah, absolutely. I think I think the interesting component is, is that people are drawn to, to stories, and people want to get more than just just a product these days. People love buying into a cause or a narrative or a journey. And, you know, our we've we're just fortunate that we've been able to share our story in a way that is compelling and that people can relate to. I mean, we've all got mental health, it's something that we want to be looking after. I mean, we've all been away work where Why don't we wear something a little bit different adds a little bit of variety. And yeah, allows people to share a little bit of vulnerability on a jobsite and, and just creating that peer to peer connection allowing people to come together when they wouldn't otherwise. Yeah, be doing so.

So in the early days, was that the How was the initial goal? So you've got his his work? Were constantly on to do something of mental health? But yeah, is it where it is now? Is it sort of developed into that? Was that always the plan from the start? or How did that come about?

It was always the plan to be a conversation starter? Most definitely. But it's sort of yet it was it's definitely forgotten anything we ever believed that would be, obviously, you're now having our own non for profit foundation as well, which is giving people direct access to professional psychologists, Monday to Friday, nine to five, which has been amazing. The beginning, it was just sort of, hey, look, we've got this idea. We want people to start talking about, you know, the more important things on a daily basis, why don't we just bought some shirts, see if anyone buys them? And we'll go from there. And yeah, it was sort of they sold out. So we ordered some more and rolled it over. And we thought our people want high views one, so we'll make some obvious ones. And, yeah, it's basically got to a point now where it's, yeah, more of a like a total uniform solution type thing where people just absolutely lobby our branding and messaging and what we're doing with our social impact, and I just want more products. So that's basically what we're up to

another book with him. And it's a really cool book about the community and all that sort of stuff. And you've created a Facebook group and all these sorts of things. And there's lots of impact in the community, but especially with the TX team to maybe just talk a bit more about the foundation that has came as a result of this.

Yeah, absolutely. So I suppose when when we first launched trademark, we, we were with an existing nonprofit organization, that were just sort of doing ad hoc initiatives for different things. And they had an idea to put comedians and musicians together to create a song that was unique. And there was a conversation startup, sadly, that never got off the ground. And we were investing into this thing to say, hey, look, this is what we're putting our money behind. When they weren't coming up with the the initiative itself, we thought was shit, this is embroidered on all of our shirts. We don't just want to be ticking a box and saying we're doing something, we want to control their outcomes. So why don't we acquire this logo off you? And we'll we'll do our own thing with it. And we met some amazing people on the way. And what we realized was that people that did want to access help, didn't know where to go. And it wasn't so much crisis support, but they just needed assistance. And it wasn't, it's more than peer to peer and it's not crisis. So there's a huge chunk in the middle where it's like, I know I'm not right, but where do I go? And it was actually after Anthony Bourdain took his life A few years ago, there's a fairly prominent charity in Australia that put a post up about it, their mental health awareness charity, and one of our mates Ross again, the guy who was at a little shareholders meeting he saw someone on their comment, this is where I'm headed like a cry for help. And Russ or messaged him and started connecting with this guy and say, hey, look, you know, I'm here to help bla bla bla bla bla and he said, you know, did anyone from that charity reach out to you and you know this this young bloke said no, no it has and rotted I will have you have you directly contacted them? He said yes. And Ross thought maybe he's not telling me the truth. So Russ message them directly and said Hey, guys, I've got a mic struggling What do I do and didn't hear anything back? I remember him telling us this and we were like, this is like the fucking major issue. I was like someone who needs help as asked for it and no one's been there as like this is a prominent, you know, non for profit charity. I was like, What the fuck is going on here? So we're like, right. Oh, well, let's get people access to the people they need instantaneously and free now. And so that's what tax came from. Because the barriers to entry for people to access private sector mental health care, it's just a, it's just

fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, it's mad. And to think that it's been able to get that way, in that no one else was really doing what we were doing was really surprising. So we're like, fuck it, we'll just do it because we know this is what needs to be done. So away we went launch TX just under 11 months ago, being able to give out sort of 2000 contact hours of free professional mental health support without

all this fantastic cuz that'd be worth a fortune. I'm doing the sums in my head by how much?

Yeah, so it's sort of well over half a million dollars where the free free care to the community, which is really, really cool. And we've been able to, you know, obviously, we're in full control of it. So we're able to do outbound stuff as well. So, you know, anyone listening here could give tax a call or a text, talk to one of our psychologists say, hey, look, I'm really worried about a mate of mine. Our psychologists will give you some assistance in regards to what you can do now, for that friend or family member, and then our psychologists can say, hey, look, do you want us to give them a call? And you can be like, yeah, this is their number, I'll have a chat to them and let them know you're gonna give them a buzz. And we can do that as well. So outbound calls, and it's ongoing and always free. So yeah, it's, it's, it's really cool. We're just at the stage now where it's we're trying to go to market and get more people on board to help further funded and get more people to access it and just get that early intervention when people need it.

Are you surprised the government hasn't done something like that? Because all Sidon Victoria, obviously, Victoria, you have to go to the GP you have to get you have to say you've got anxiety and depression, when you might not just to get the dice tell you what to say, to get the six mental health plan, you have to get them in a health plan. And, and you feel like you feel embarrassed, like, Oh, I do want to I go to my students who listen to my staff knows my story so much. But to get at 2829, I had to go in and say, Look, I don't have any mental health plan, but I want to get the sessions or to talk about something right? And you have to just go through this procedure, then you have to go and get the Medicare thing. It's just such a it takes it not everyone would would go to that effort to go and make the appointment the GP First of all, you know,

absolutely. And then even and even once you've gone and taken the time off work, gone to the to the doctor and made that appointment got on the mental health plan. And you've got to go find a psychologist. I mean, we've heard of people, we've heard of people that have taken up to three months to find a slot to chat to a psychologist. And you know, that's just so scary to think that that's the that's the journey for people to access. professional help. So yeah, we've just cut away all the bullshit, basically. And yeah, I suppose, not surprised that the government hasn't done something like this, because it's sort of it needs it needed that appeal, it needed to be able to talk to community. And I suppose when it comes from the top down, it's hard for the goodwill to be built into a brand. And for people to not just trust it, but actually buy into it. And I think because we've gone from like a bottom up approaches that are like, hey, look, we're just a couple of blogs, got some ideas, we're making some shirts, people are chatting, people can now access a professional and it's sort of like this little simmering thing that's sort of like creeping up. And, you know, the beautiful thing now is it's just it's a scalable entity in regards to the more money we can raise the more psychologists we can put on, we didn't want it to be, you know, just another massive behemoth of marketing and advertising. In admin costs. It's like none other than a trademark and all the Alliance partners, you know, we pay for their electricity, they rent the fuck and everything. It's just like, we just want more money for more psychologists to give it more hours of care, because it's, yeah, we're already doing all the other stuff for him, which I love hearing because, you know,

there is a lot of mental health awareness charities out there and they're massive, as you said, behemoths of organizations and sometimes I've from talking to people because because my passion is more the bipolar, schizophrenia and kids who have parents with severe mental condition, that's what I like, and I know how that gets no awareness where you have these behemoths of these brains, you know, just depression and anxiety it's just it feels like a marketing effort almost. Whereas if you want to cut out all the fluff, this is an actual thing that people can actually directly help people.

Yeah, absolutely. And I sort of I think you know, that the the idea around more awareness everyone knows is an issue Everyone knows that the problem the beautiful thing is that like our work shirts and like the trademark community are raising the awareness anyway, just through the shirts because people ask what they're bad so that's already doing that PETA PETA awareness but then with yet TX it's it's solution based it's Hey, look for the issue is people can't access private sector mental health care, so we're just giving it away for free. So yeah, it's it's really exciting, right? We're absolutely loving it. And we can't wait to see what the future holds.

Well hope the government would look at it didn't say well look at the process with this and how easy it is to get access to help as opposed to the current systems. I know Victoria, we just had the recently the the mental health Royal Commission and was a heap of recommendations and our premier said he's going to implement all of them, which I hope he does. Yeah, you just seems to me like you know, in modern times, you would think you would reduce one, reduce barriers to access help. Whereas the current sit, you know, just with the bureaucracies, it seems to be so. So backwards. Anyone from the government or anything sort of been in touch with you or ask you about? Nothing? Well, no,

no, nothing? Nothing yet? Um, where? Yeah, we haven't had anyone from the government reach here yet, I think it's probably people probably waiting for the data, we've been getting starting to really push out that the data and the impact we've been able to make. And so now,

the data is interesting. I've been talking, I talked to a few. I've talked to a lady who works in this field, and I want you to have impact studies of 10 years. So for example, there's a charity identical satellite, and they they hold camps with kids who have got by parents with bipolar schizophrenia, and put them together. Yeah. And to get funding, they say you got to show us your impact over 10 years. Yeah. So you've got to wait for ease of doing this thing. Now to show your impact or your cause, or whatever it is, I could be wrong in that, but that's, that's the sort of the stuff the bureaucracy that's going on.

And I mean, that's, it's sort of, it's sort of worrying because you know, these larger, larger organizations that are getting, you know, back up to like $750 million a year, but like, that, we need to, you know, we're very solutions focused in regards like, Why so why keep flogging a dead horse? When there's other ways out there that we can make a change and people can get, you know, help? Yeah.

It's a great point what you make it because I had a guy who's the ambassador for headspace. Victoria is an ex football player. And he said exactly the same thing. There's been enough money spent on awareness, as you said, But where's the solution Beisel? Where these where's the actual help? yet? Where those systems in place, which seems to be what has to happen next with Gaza? where the money goes?

Absolutely, yeah. Well, hopefully we can. Yeah, eventually get picked up and in further funded, but I mean, we're confident in the, you know, in the model, we've got in the in the corporate part, as we're coming on board that we think we can do it on our own. Anyway. So you know, we've never wanted to have to rely on anyone directly. I think we're just, yeah, we were surrounded by really good organizations and great people, and we're very confident we'll be able to do it on our own.

Now, what's the feedback that you're getting from the service? I presume you get a lot of direct feedback and things like that. So what's, what's gay?

We get? Yeah, we get amazing feedback. I think that the ironic thing is that people, yeah, reach out, because they trust Dan and I in regards to our, who we are as people, which is really cool. And nothing that we ever anticipated. You know, it's been podcasts like this. We've been on where people have reached out directly to TX, they already had plans in place to take their life. But yeah, heard earlier story, what we were doing, and it was, yeah, something that appealed to them in regards to, you know, I trust this, which is really cool. So yeah, we've been able to build up some really goodwill, in the brand. And the feedback is just overwhelming in regards to, it's free, which people just can't believe they think there's some sort of catch, catch somewhere. Lately free, and you can use it for as long as you want. And sort of the cool thing is now we're getting to a stage where we're sort of people that have come to us in real Dire Straits, but we've been able to progress them right through, get them the help that they've needed. And the education they've needed to now sort of wean off our service. So our goal is obviously for people to access us. But our goal then is also to get people away, but improve as human beings as they as we sort of wean them off, which is really cool. So that's sort of the the stages that we're at now. Where we've yet had had clients through, were able to say, hey, look, we've we've got you to a position now where I don't think we need to be catching up. You know, once a week, we can catch up once every two months. Yeah, which is exciting. And I mean, yeah, the the feedback we get is, is really, really empowering that it's really

cool. So how many psychologists do you have on staff

or how many? We've got for at the moment, we're just about to hire FPF. So we've got, yeah, a really, really cool little tight knit crew up there. And yeah, we're just just hotbed to hire the next the next person to go up in there be really exciting.

And it's the plan to just expand that almost there are other things in the worker, what's, what's that?

Yeah, so the tech side of things, obviously, you know, most traders are up early in the morning, and most traders going to bed late at night. So that's sort of the next main goal for us is to be able to pick up those hours sort of earlier than nine and later than five and get people when they're at home and you know, some some blogs loosen up after a couple of studies and then willing to text or call someone. Some people aren't Yeah, do night shift and come home really early in the morning and want to be able to speak to someone so yeah, expanding the services out is probably one of the next main goals, but also just getting more industry partners on board. So setting up the TX Alliance is our big next goal. So our next half of the year, this year in the first half of next financial year is setting up the TX Alliance and getting more industry partners on board and helping further fund more psychologists. So it cost us $120,000 a year to hire one psychologist, but we're able to give out a three to one return on that money to the community. So if you give us $1 we'll give three back to the kids Unity for zero cost, which is really cool. So just getting that funding model together. So it's, it's sustainable. it's scalable. And, yeah, something that we know will, will continue to keep the lights on but create further change in the community.

I think it's fantastic. And is there any sort of stuff from the private Facebook group you have that this sharing or the stories like how do you what's happening in that as well?

Yeah, what? The hot? Yeah, so it's the it's the closed Facebook group for around anyone that's bought trademark work where before, which is really cool. And, yeah, we get stories in there of people that have seen other trademark shirts and sort of their instant mates in regards to they've got a common common cause and a common story and something that they can chat about. We also yet hear stories of impact, where people are just out and about, and someone spotted the shirt and asked what it's about. And they've opened up and showed some vulnerability, and then reached out to TX or ATF support somewhere else, which is really cool. And then yeah, just amazing spots of the shirts have shown up. And yeah, all over Australia, people out wearing our belts really cool.

It's really smart, what you've done, you know, just how you got that community. And as it's something where people want to take a photo of themselves, you know, the UGC, user generated content. So yes, smart, smart thing. And I feel good as you said, you had the thank you water was a good example before of a social enterprise brand. It's fantastic. You go in and work because I don't think there's anything else that I've seen that's like this or achieving what you have from whatever service to the community. It's absolutely fantastic.

Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. It's obviously it's, yeah, there's there's definitely some hard days and great days as well. So it's, yeah, it's never always easy, but it's um, yeah. rewarding. And, yeah, really appreciate that. It's really yeah.

And now if you're, if your supply chain as well, you don't it's not just you have some workers who have special needs as well involved in your supply chain as well. Maybe we'll talk about your actual it's not just you're getting these from the sweatshop in China, whatever. Yeah, yeah. You don't know about the supply chain.

Yeah. So I suppose our round we've done some manufacturing with Sri rescue home over in Cambodia. So we made our range of hoodies last year, made some hybrids, polos are there in market at the moment they were made over there, which is really cool. So she rescue homes run by it's not Ico projects. It's a safe haven for women caught up in the sex trafficking industry in Southeast Asia. So yeah, it's been really cool to be able to support them. We also work with work restart. So there, it's in prison selling service, outside Brisbane, which is really cool. So it's a social impact initiative. So it's, uh, yeah, inmates learning new skills. So we can cut the rate of recidivism when they when they come out of imprisonment. Give them yeah, gainful employment. So yeah, one of our main goals is to actually employ someone that comes through that program, and get them into Yeah, our business full time, which would be which would be really cool down the track. And we also work with sand able, so they're our warehousing, pick pack and dispatch, or threepio. Third Party logistics company. So they work with multicap. And we've got sort of over 9100 hours, sorry, 9100 hours of Disability Employment, through Yeah, our, our collaboration with send Abel, so everyone there has got a disability. Now it gives them get gainful employment. It's really exciting. Here, they're a great group of young men and women over there who pay, pick, pack and dispatch your stuff with care every day and send it out to our amazing customers. And it's just another way of us to make a little bit of social impact along the way.

Now, was that the goal at the start? Was everything in the supply chain that way? Was it just sort of that developed? Or?

No, it's just sort of the way it's gone. I mean, we've met met more great people. We've found other great connections and people doing good things. And you know, our Declan who runs enable, he was he was one of the very few cold LinkedIn messages that I've ever replied to. And yeah, I mean, it's just a it was just a no brainer for us. I mean, we, there's other alternatives, and I don't think they'd be that much cheaper. And it's like, Why Why wouldn't you select, you know, people that are disadvantaged and are giving more people more opportunities? I think it's just, yeah, we all think here, it's just a bit of a no brainer, why wouldn't we support those sorts of initiatives? They're fantastic, and they're making a lot of impact.

I think you're ahead of the curve by Marlatt, you know, I think what you're doing now, no of you everyone obviously seems to have a side hustle and get a prototype and get it done in China and stuff. But I think, you know, having that whole process actually make an impact along the way, rather than just saying, you know, you're donating $1 for tree planet or something, you know, it's actually really, really impressive. And I think you're way ahead of the curve. Thanks for being with the social enterprises. So I was gonna say what have you personally learned from the experience regarding this? Because obviously, did you have any experience with mental health affecting the family or anything at the start, or was it just fire? By curiously by your friend?

No, I didn't fit well. I mean, looking back now, obviously, you know, I didn't even realize that everyone had mental health. You know, people just think that mental health is depression, anxiety. You know, that's the amount that Dan and I've learned and our employees along the way, is profound. I mean, looking back now Yeah, there's plenty of times looking back much old in regards to where, you know, family members or friends were experiencing poor mental health but we were none the wiser weren't labeling it that it was just sort of, you know, having a shitty couple of weeks. So yeah, I mean, what we've learned just about ourselves, how we operate. Yeah, how to run a business, how to head have started charity, how to employ people how to set a culture and make we've yet learned so much and still learning made made huge mistakes, and will continue to make mistakes, but learn from them. And just got a really cool, cool, you know, North Star in regards to where we where we want to take it. Make as as much impact as we can. And yeah, buddy, change the

world. How big is your team now?

So including a couple of Kegels we've got we're about 15 in trademark, and we've got yet five so for for for psychologists in TX and then mark, he's the CEO. So he runs it for us. So he has five over there and 15 introvert sighs Yeah, but 20 of us brought around here and he one time and he

played for three and a half years, which is awesome. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Really cool. And now now it's gonna say as well, the you also have your own podcast. Yeah, really cool. You're in studio sort of set up with that. And maybe I'm talking about that real quickly.

Yeah, so trademark radio. So Dan, and I started that when it was still just Dan and I about 18 months ago. And we just want to be able to have the conversations that we had. And we wanted our community to have more often. So we thought why don't we lead the charge here and sit down and show some vulnerability and, and talk to a broad range of people about who they are and what they've been through and how they've overcome certain obstacles in their lives. It's my it's been really cool. So we've done about, oh, gee, it must be up to about 50 episodes now, I think. I mean, yeah, sort of got to the end of last year, probably September, October, and Dan and I were just burning out. So we put a C's on the on the podcast for for a couple of months. So we can rejuvenate and come back bigger and better. And yeah, launched it again this year. And it's a nice guy really well, we're having some really amazing guests on people with lived experience, but also people that are professionals in their field. So we're just having Yeah, conversations that people should be having but aren't. So you know, we had Ronnie farm run from perinatal wellness peach tree. So it's a nonprofit talks about Yeah, perinatal, depression, anxiety, and that was an amazing chat. Now she's got a lived experience and then Rob Godwin is one of the directors of love Honey, it's the biggest sex toy online retailer in the world. Those are 440 staff and yeah, we're talking about you know, sexual health, anxiety relationships, consent porn. So just having all these conversations that you know we should all be having, but we aren't and yeah, bring it to the forefront of what people are talking about. It's really cool. Awesome.

And I was gonna say you as well the the range so the range look recently with the basically today the rise is expanding what's what's the of the copyright or something like that? o'clock on Friday? Yeah. Things are going on today. Yeah, so we've got more of a casual ranges at all.

Yeah, just some stuff that people can slop on around at home. Yeah. had asked him knock around in the office with so yeah, the operating gear is basically just some lifestyle stuff that people have been crying out for. So yeah, once you knock the boots off, and yeah, sit on the couch and had enough of the day you can Yeah, relaxing a bit of comfort. So we've got the comfort zone out at the moment. Some t shirts and stuff as well. And yeah, Mike people, people are absolutely loving it.

And we personally What do you do for your own mental health look off because you mentioned before burning out and that's gone from a stop and doing it successfully? You had you obviously put in a lot, a lot of hours and hard work. So what have you done for yourself? You're probably doing a lot for others to not worry about yourself.

Yeah, my big thing. Yeah, it's probably it's been investing in in a lot of reading so my goal this year was to read Yeah, book a month. So Python really well they're just investing into some some debt and some downtime and less screen time, which is really good. A lot more. Yeah. connection with with the wife and at home with the dog doing bit of gardening, chilling out and just the sitting a bit of routine. It's so easy to Yeah, get up first thing in the morning on the phone buddy into work away. You go and work all day and then the night time and you're in bed and you go around again. So yeah, she's setting some really good expectations in regards to start and finish times. And yeah, take some time for yourself. It's really important I where Dan and I are going to the desert race this year to go and do a bit of spectating and travel out to Central Australia and yeah, so taking two weeks off and middle the year just to rejuvenate and something that we've put across your entire business everyone in the business has got to take two weeks off at some stage this year. So don't burn out because you know, the Christmas rush September onwards is just absolute chaos and we want everyone to be yes set up. and ready to go for a big end of the year.

Okay, imagine what I've taken up enough of your time. So imagine what what are you handles? Where can everyone find you?

Yeah, stuff, guys, Joe. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah. trademark.com tra DMU double t.com? Yes, I'm on Facebook, Instagram. If you want to listen to our podcast, it's trademark radio. And yeah, it really appreciate the opportunity. Joel, it was great to chat, mate. And yeah, can't wait to make some more impact with with you and your team.

I've said this to you before my butt off camera, like, you know, this is what you're doing is what I essentially want to do. I think you're, what you've done is fantastic. Like, I think you're doing a start up like it's so hard, but like to have that passion or that purpose as well just gives you that extra fuel to keep going. It's really, really impressive. And I reckon if you're a leader in this, I reckon a lot of people are going to start copying this model, I guess, and for a bunch of causes and how you've done it, and you probably get heat up for them to create a business course or supplements and website and how you did it and whatever else, but it's really, really impressive. And I'm, I'm really, really happy to have you on and thank you for giving me your time. I know you're extremely busy. I'm hoping anyone who's listening to this, check out the website, podcasts, all that sort of stuff. And

if anyone from the government's listening you guys up for how you guys actually provide a service with to the community like this. It's unbelievable. And yeah, if anyone's listening and wants to get access TX Yeah, just head over to TX dot all t ICS dot o RG or you can text or call them Monday to Friday nine to 5104 triple 8469 double eight.

No worries. Well, thanks for that. I'd really appreciate your time. Thanks, Joel. Take care my chat soon.