Interview with Jim's Mowing and Jim's Group founder, Jim Penman on Mental Illness

Welcome to the lived experience podcast. My name is Joel Kleber. And I'm your host to the lived experience if you're a first time listener, it's all about sharing stories of lived experience with mental health and mental illness to raise awareness about other topics in mental health, that aren't often talked about. On today's show, we've got to be an interesting one. So what happens is I do a podcast with the Jim's group, Jim's mowing founder called Jimmy Israel. He's not just a corporate image. And we did a podcast around two years ago around mental health, mental illness and what he sort of does in that sports sort of space and his thoughts on it. And then I sort of went off in a bit of a tangent was a bit inspired and, and told you my story about having a single mom with bipolar and what's happened with that it's probably the longest Jim's ever stayed quiet for anyone. I think you listen to me for 25 minutes, I'm very appreciative that it's a really cool piece of content I feel that I hopefully you get a lot out of it is actually a video podcast as well on my YouTube channel. So head over there. To do like what you hear, please make sure you subscribe or leave a review or share with your friends. That really helps a lot. But I really hope you enjoy this episode I sort of do for my heart at the gym. If you can relate to it, please feel free to send me a DM and episode coming next week. So hope you enjoy it. Welcome to another episode of the gyms cast. And today we're gonna talk about mental health and mental health is very important to you, Jimmy spent a lot of your own personal money in researching and hopefully creating an impact in that field. So let's start with that sort of as a topic today and go from there. And then I'll tell you a little bit of about my background with it, which is a bit different to most so what personal experience that I do, that's for sure I do. But I appreciate what you're doing. Because you don't have probably the personal experience that I do. But you're doing a hell of a lot more than what anyone else that I know personally is doing. So I appreciate what you're doing in that field. So now John, tell people a bit about more, why you're involved in it and what you're doing in that field?

Well, first of all, I I have a very direct interest in in mental health myself, and a lot of it comes out of my involvement with franchisees because it's an increasing problem we've seen in recent years, there's more and more of our franchisees suffer from depression and anxiety and those kinds of issues. And we're aware of it because it's very pastoral system. Part of part of Jim is, as you know, is that we keep close contact with our franchisees. In fact, it's one of the major benefits of the system, we found big time, it's not, not so much long term benefits, and not so much learning how to run a better business so that we do that. But actually having a sense of community and having somebody who cares for you. And we see more and more these issues with mental health. We had a really horrifying thing happened last year. As you know, where we're one of our franchisees in Western Australia, killed his three little girls and his wife and his mother in law. Not nothing to do with his business. Actually, he said in his statements when he was convicted of it, the business was wonderful. It was a positive thing in his life, but he had this terrible demons inside him and and that was very deeply shocking, because Because Jim's is a bit like an extended family so that the repercussions were right through I went over to Perth to talk to the franchisees that we had a big meeting and most of the pensioners in the state winners golf, get this wholeness golf club to talk about the whole thing and what happened and they were very, very upset by it, not those who knew and many who didn't just it just felt like one of your own. something so awful had happened. And they came up with a whole suggestions. I asked them, guys, what can we do? What can we do to do something about this and they came up with some pretty good ideas. One of them was that we should prepare a like us Fitch ticket or something that we could send to every franchisee with emergency numbers and the contact numbers, which we did, as soon as I got back, we got it organised. We've got these contact numbers. So that's been done. Another thing that was some, they suggested that even though you you've got franchisors who can talk to franchisees, sometimes franchisees might want to talk to somebody who's in the same kind of business, but not the franchisor. And so what they and what they said is we would like to have certain franchisees appointed as mentors, who could just out of the goodness of their heart to help people who need it and I asked people who be volunteering and I was very, I was very moved at something like half the people their productive hand. So we would volunteer our time to help other franchisees in need. So as a result of that, what we've done instead of a programme where we've got franchisees identified all over the country in every state, that have actually been chosen and been selected, who volunteered and they provide some training just to actors, that's that cycle psychologists, but just people who can be an ear and listen because you know, you you come across similar problems you had difficulty with clients difficulties with with with you know, spouses and so forth, different things that are faced by people in the field. So we put that in place that was a wonderful and it was it was so heartwarming see so many people prepared to give up their time. And these people are wonderful. They really are, that don't pay zap for it. It's just all to do with I want to help my fellow franchisees. They also what became clear out of that was that our franchisors needed a bit more training. So we've now started the system where our new franchisors and as many of the existing ones as possible, go through mental health training. I've done the course myself, actually, we had somebody come here, and many of my staff to to understand how to deal with people who've got mental health problems. So we've done that. And the fourth thing, which we haven't quite got off the ground yet, we're actually providing a through my institute, some some free psychological counselling free, okay, yeah, the first three sessions will be free after that they have to pay for it, but we do some we do some, some free for them. Just just as, just to help you out a bit is somebody you can talk through your issues with somebody, a trained psychologist in this case. So all these things came out of that. I mean, I can't say they compensate for it. But if anything we can do can stop something bad happening again, and we do have things happening. people commit suicide, we've had that case, what about franchisors committed suicide, but we've had a couple of franchisees killed themselves too. So it's because because we're so intermeshed because there's a sense of community in gyms, you tend to feel very, very strongly when when something like that happens,

and basically we'll get some statistics on Beyond Blue. So before we did that, I know it's our we're filming this on today, which is Are you okay, so are you okay days a whole suicide prevention movement, and it's are you okay, day, right? Today, when we're doing this beyondblue is basically one in seven Australians will experience depression in their lifetime. So we have nearly 4000 franchisees, so, obviously, statistically, we know it's, there's a few that have probably gone through tough times at this as we speak,

I can tell you is it's common, I would say that thing it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. And then the message one in six Australians is currently expressing expressing sorry, experiencing depression or anxiety, or both, and one quarter of Australians will experience an anxiety condition in their lifetime. So it's quite extremely prevalent and why it's important. So we throw Institut, maybe Can we talk a bit more about the research we're doing in regards to the mental health field?

Alright, look, before we do that, can I just talk about what individuals can do themselves. The best defence is strong relationships, strong community. And we push that very strongly in gyms more and more. In recent times, we've talked about the need to have community, which means coming to meetings, talking regularly with your franchisor getting to know other franchisees being part of a close group, I think the movies like The Men's Shed, movement is fantastic, because men men in particular tend to be more isolated. And I think the ability to come together with others. Yeah, that's the same thing with my with my group, not that we suffer for depression in my group. People had their issues. But being part of a small group, close community, is an enormously important thing.

I'm glad you said that in dementia is important. I always I know because my my uncle runs went back home in horrible. So one was around three in the case, Western Melbourne was one of the old blacks there had no one, you know, and for them, it's very, very, very important. That sense of community they get together and had their friends there. You know, without that, who knows? what would, what would happen,

we need to be part of something, I think that's what we can do as individuals to connect with each other. And obviously, things like keeping yourself fit and eating well. And those kind of things have a big impact on mood far more than people think. strong families.

It's interesting when you say that, because it directly relates to race. So I'm a bit different, obviously. Y'all write down some notes for firewood do this just so I'd stay on track. It was interesting to hear how much stuff you're doing in Italian now and how you've shifted your focus towards that. But my, my experience with mental health is a little bit different than most you know, most people think mental health issues, depression, anxiety, and obviously, unfortunately commit suicide. There's a lot more other stuff. So for me, I was raised by a single single man who has bipolar one, bipolar one, bipolar two and this schizophrenia. Now, if you've been around anyone with those, it's not a it's not an easy condition. So for example, someone's bipolar one, they tend to be a lot more mania, they have a lot more money in episodes, the depressive episodes you know, sexual energy, feelings of euphoria, risky behaviours that are the sleep, never get out of bed dude or their medication. They have a lot of electroconvulsive therapy, I don't know if you've ever seen someone have a CT electric shock treatment, if you want to call it that way. So they put the probes on the head and they zap someone and whatever and this whole sort of stuff in you know, with probably my mom, she got diagnosed when she was young at age eight, and back in the day was lithium. Now the problem with that is that she bought a tolerance up to lithium. So the problem with her was that she's got to talk to lithium AECT, right, that doesn't AACT would always work in a way that lithium wore off, so then you have to find other drugs which aren't really available. So a lot of issues so basically 23% of kids in Victoria at the moment live with a parent or carer who has a mental illness. Now I think those numbers it does include depression, my experiences with bipolar one so for me you know schizophrenia bipolar one of the more now like that they're the ones who from what I know from talking other people in the organization's I've spoken to and the people who study this, they're the ones who had the most trouble. What you're saying directly relates to this because you do inherited a lot of stuff from your childhood from this, unfortunately, you know, and the problem the problem is people with with bipolar and, and that is, is that the kids never get treated first and in the system. So what basically happens is what happens for us. Remember when I first became aware, so a lot of times, if you meet someone who was raised by a schizophrenic or by a bipolar parent, you'll find that there's a point in their life where they become an adult. So for me, it was seven years old, I don't have childhood up to seven. And that was it after I became aware. So what happened with me was, this is before I knew anything about what was going on, go and in school, in the middle of class principal comes and says, Oh, Joel, this you got to come into the principal's office, he was accompanied by two policemen. So back in the day, being a young fellow thinking I was a bit cool outcome getting pulled out by two police people that did me a lot of my school career at the time, but then you sit into the office and they basically say your mom's in hospital. Let me tell you what's going on. So I caught you got to go to these offices. So we made my younger sister back in the van, we're actually pretty excited because you know, within a half an hour long the police and the Victoria I think was the WA Police at the time are really good. So drive you to the local shopping centre, which has a shoe with services department. So you get dropped off there. So you go to school with your bambino, then all of a sudden, you're now in a shopping centre at the Human Services Department. And then there's a guy in a suit, there is a 50 year old guy and suit not probably the friendliest guy. And he basically told mums in hospital don't tell you what's wrong. The cops are gonna take you home to get some clothes in here to go live with this lady. So okay, so you go back home, your mom's not there or whatever. And then you get taken driven out to another suburb, you don't even farm and you basically dropped the fur lady and not told anything in the ego. So that was my first experience. And then after that, I sort of worse sort of was made aware it was going on in all my times until probably the internet really came around. In terms of researching from Google, I was never really told what bipolar was, the only way I knew or bipolar was is by going into a lot of site. So I came so for me, what would happen is that when the person is committed to the cypher, the generally the way it happened with my mom, was that a police so this, she had to get to a stage where she was so radical until the police were called before they would do anything. So even if I was younger, and called the The whoever it was, instead of my mom's on the border of having a relapse, you should get it out. Now now we have to have a go to the emergency board before we can commit. So a lot of it was very embarrassing. A lot of the times neighbours would somehow find her acting erratically, and they would call call the cops. So basically, I've had I've added in hours every year, because upon with bipolar people are not enough schizophrenics is all bipolar people, once they take the medication, they're back on track, I'm good, I don't need to take my medication again. Because the medication they go off the rails again, back in hospital shock treatment pills. back out again, for six months a year, take I'm calm or good tape, stop taking it. I'm back in again, back to square one. And the kids are always left like that. I've I've spoken to psychiatrist and psychiatrist and psychologist, the priority is not the kids at all, I think early in 2019, they've actually started doing directives to change that, which is crazy. I'm 31. So in 2019 actually saying say, Oh, hang on the kid, when there's a key involved their priority, we actually had no allocated social workers when we're younger, which is surprising. A lot of kids now don't think they do have an allocated social worker, unless they're actually in a foster home environment. So they might have, what happens a lot of the times is the parent goes into a psych psychiatric ward, if there's family and friends that they generally did with them. But the problem that's at the stage was my mum was in Perth. And the silly thing was she had 11 Brothers and sisters who are on one level. And because of her condition, she wants to be independent, you distance yourself on that. And what happened was, every time she got committed, we would have to be was at the state and go to foster homes. So all foster homes all the time and all this sort of stuff, minimal support, you still don't know what was going on. And the problem is that with young kids and people that come from these situations is young, they have a lot of PTSD, a lot of trauma, they're more inclined to use drugs, they're more inclined, they're statistically always more likely to get a job, or to kids who spend time in a foster home or with these parents commit more crimes or this sort of stuff, they learned less money. And there's a lot of poverty, because people with bipolar, schizophrenic can't hold any job. So my mum has been on the disability pension since for a while and I'm 31 years. So always, you know, we had government housing, and Touchwood we had a really, thank God, we had a great, a great grandmother who paid for us to go to private school and all that sort of stuff. And but up until then it was it was pretty full on. It's something you never hear about. And for me, and for me what gets it what's frustrating is is that even today, the amount of platforms we have, which is let's say, are you okay, which is today and Beyond Blue. You never ever hear about this, you have mental health awareness, okay, you're raising awareness for mental health. Think about the kids, they never, ever, ever think about the kids. And these are young people in the community who do such a great job because without those kids, a lot of these parents I know with my mom, she always used to say to us, I wouldn't be here if you keep swinging, you know, and that was I was threatened, you know, dropped off at school, I won't be here when you come I'm going to kill myself. You know, imagine then trying to go to school and trying to perform. Right? These are the stories and what I'm saying there is I'm saying this on cameras because I google online about this sort of stuff. And there's no real organisations doing it. There's one in Victoria that are really not there's probably a couple more. The one I'm sort of I went to has spoken to we're going to do a bit of content with him is of course Satellite Foundation. And they basically do programmes and they once their kids identified and they're getting from regional areas and this make him with other kids who go through the same experience because you don't realise how tough he is. These are young adults, even though there's seven or eight, they're experienced daily trauma that people have got no idea about, and they get no resources, which is my frustration when you got Beyond Blue. Are you okay? All these mental awareness organisations go through their websites, how many times you hear about this? Nothing. And these people are so responsible for so many saving lives, because they're just being kids, their, their, their their parents support person. They're the ones who talked to they're exposed to things on a daily basis. And then they're expected to act normal. The amount of times they had to go to school. And I've got in trouble because I've had something happen to me at home. But I can't tell the teacher because my mom says don't tell the teacher because I've got bipolar, she wants to want to know, because the stigma attached to it. So the school doesn't know. And it's quite frustrating still that in 2019, that there's still no, there's no real government assistance. I mean, I know when we grew up, we didn't have a social worker unless we're in a foster home. Then when we moved over here to Victorville 13, because of our friends, our relatives took us in, we've got no allocated support, as I said, I'll call the left alone. But there's various things like, you know, I think the focus now needs to start with mental health awareness needs to start shifting towards kids who have to live in these situations, because this statistically a lot behind everyone. You know, even I did University, statistically, I don't know what the stat is, but I shouldn't have probably based on the stats, you know, I was probably in a in a bad way. I don't know how I got over it. I'm very lucky that I had a really good, my mom's one of 11, which was good. And when we moved over to one of them was 13, because she kept in committed disciples at the time. We were always with foster families. And that was a lot of trouble happening then. But we had, she's got a really great support network and the support that the Mental Health Network and all that sort of stuff in the NDIS give is quite amazing. However, the kids are still nothing you won't see any content much online about this, which is what I'm hoping to change Beyond Blue. And these people would have all these Domecq donations and take all the the attention. I'm not saying this to be selfish, but they could use their platform for so much better to raise awareness about kids, young adults and adults. And what frustrates me is I've actually spoken to people when I put something out online before and I had people DM me saying I didn't know you went through that I had a similar experience. These people are gonna start saying thing. There's people out there who are 5060 years old, who grew up back in the day with this stuff who went through similar things. I have a couple of people who did that, yet they've got to start speaking out and using their platform. It's great that people are speaking about suicide prevention, depression and anxiety that people need to start not being ashamed of their childhoods and all their trauma and their parents, because jellied single parent families as well, that's one thing you say, harp on family, the majority of people who have a bipolar schizophrenic parent, it's always a single majority from a single parent families, because it's a very, very tough burden, obviously, on the relationship, it doesn't, it doesn't seem because it was someone who was in the psych ward. But it needs to be a lot more stuff done about it. You know, and that's why I'm putting this on tape, because I'm glad you're allowing me to speak with this, because I think it's very important. And, you know, we need to start doing about and when you've referred that purpose before, this is probably where my purpose is starting to go towards a bit now. And it wouldn't have taken much for example, like I would say, to anyone who works in this field, or who was actually committed to the story, you know, we were forced when we're younger to go to psych wards, so I spent probably 10 of my birthdays in a psych ward. So I'm in a psych ward, mom's just had her a CT, they bring her out, she's drooling or whatever else because she's just had the treatment a couple of days ago, heavy tranquillisers and whatever else and you're because it's good for her. You've got to sit there as a six or seven year old are missing your mom, you know, tell you all these horrible things. Then you get paraded around a psych ward and I'll make my friend Jerry and Jerry's got 10 cigarette burns up his arms or make my friend Diane Dion's got 50 cuts, you know, I mean, so you expose these traumas of the kid, this happens all the time. This is still happening up until this day. And you know, and then the mismanagement of children who had a mentally ill parent is still going on in 2019. Shocking, and it's amazing negligence by the government, because you think about economically, it's bad. So we know that statistically, kids who grew up in these environments, they're less productive in society. They just they don't go to they don't go on to further education, they earn less, they have more likely alcohol, drug dependency pumps, they're more inclined to have mental illness themselves, because the genetic factors, for example. So economically, the government should do something about it, which they don't, there is hardly any funding. And the one satellite foundation.org.au is something I recommend to look up it just there's just the awareness series none. And I feel as though the platforms that are out there saying their mental health awareness, they aren't raising all the mental health awareness issues. And I think people who grew up in a similar situation to mine which there are a lot of need to start using their platforms. There's probably people out there with some sort of media sort of background behind him who's in the media who had a similar background, too ashamed to speak about it. And they really need to do it because I think at the moment it's great that it's are you okay, day to day but this this issue, which I'm talking about now, I'm not saying this to play the victim at all, but the it's not raised at all, and the government mishandled it a lot. And you're putting kids into unsafe environments. You take a you take a schizophrenic or bipolar and because the way this court system works She said before the parent, the primary caregiver parent, right, we can't keep the kids away from them. Because probably that's going to be the best thing, having a stable environment where they can not have this disruption, we're going to put them back into a crazy household. That's the way the government works. And we'll maybe check on them. You know, once a week or two weeks, you know, the rest of the day, you don't know what's goes on. And the mental strain that's put on young people and you're expected to function normally is really, really crazy. And I can tell you 100 stories, which I won't go go into too much, but there's countless times for example, you know, please come into the school, or friends, families or neighbours calling the cops on my mom, because something's gone in the hyper nine year episode or, or in Romania. And, you know, I recommend, you know, if anyone's seen someone have a manic episode, it's probably one of the scariest things I've ever seen. It's very distressing. You know, my mom, because of the A CT over the years, they do say, a CT has no, cause I'm deterioration of the brain. But I don't believe that for a fact. Yeah, my mom is 5060 now, but she got diagnosed with dementia early on stage of dementia 59. And I would say that's a lot due to medication into the A CT and to the mismanagement of the condition over the years, which is not the fault of anyone really just about Paul, it's such a full on condition, and schizophrenic is the same. But the point I'm trying to make is that these platforms like Beyond Blue, let's say Black Dog Institute, all these ones who are doing greater work with mental health awareness. They never, ever, ever talk about children who are forced, they have to you're forced to do, the responsible thing to do is to take the kid out of a situation to give the kids stability, consistency, even though you know, I love my mother left at Pitzer talk to my mom all the time, but the amount of trauma that you know, and that's a lifelong burden. You know, I'm my mom's, for example, Medical Guardian. So I make decisions, I have to go to VCAT to do make a decision for on behalf I do a lot of the caseworkers still, it's a lifelong thing, that's a flux because you shouldn't be doing because your parents should be your mentor. You know, it shouldn't be other way around, you got all these young carers in the community, they get no financial assistance. And they, I would love to know how many times someone with a bipolar parent schizophrenic parent has stopped that powerful desire to commit suicide. No one knows about, I'd love to know how many times that happens. And families watching this can put in the comments, I'd appreciate it. But this is something that I'm really passionate about. And I'm loud, I'm thanks for allowing me to speak and use this platform in a way to do it, because it's something that needs to be needs to happen a bit more often, you know, the one in Victoria satellite foundation, but there's not too many others that are now in Australia, who address this. And if they do address it, they get minimal funding, and it's been done at their own bat. So if I urge anyone who's watching this, you know, lobby, lobby, those mental health platforms, which do have the platforms, like you'd be on Bluesun that even though the core is depression, anxiety and mental health awareness, this this issue, and the great thing about you can have an impact now, you know, mental health research and that is great. But this is you can have an impact. Now you can go up to a kid, you can, what I would recommend should happen is that there needs to be reform with social workers and within psychiatrist with how they treat kids, when soon as a kid is identify or children identified in it. Because the best experiences I had during the whole time growing up with this was from the police. Believe it or not, I was always kind of centred and patronised by psychiatrist, social workers were very daycare because they were overworked and all that sort of stuff. The police were probably the most caring people, which is amazing people might but why time police were always the best of my sympathetic and mental health nurses, you know, the mental health nurse people that actually be in 300 grand a year for the amount of garbage that they have to put up with in those places thought to have his job. And the funding to those sectors is not, it's not good, given example, unwinnable war was gone when you started Facebook Briley, which was 200 beds. Now I think we've got 15 bits. Why the cut when it's going up like this, you know what I mean? And government says, Oh, we spend all this stuff on mental health, they, you know, well, that's, that's fine, but they do not spend it in this area. And as I said, 23% of children Victoria living at this moment, with someone a primary carer, or parent who has a mental illness. And you wouldn't know about until I told you that. Now a lot of people want to tell my story I tell too many, but they go to me, Oh, you've done so well. Well, you know, it's it's not something you know what you're supposed to do. You either be resilient, or you wither away in those situations. And I wouldn't change my childhood for anything because I think it taught me a lot of things in terms of resilience, working hard and not trying to be victim of circumstance. So for me, and now having a platform now and I think I'm very adaptable because when you have inconsistency in your childhood where I'm at home now I'm in a stranger's house or at the police station, I'm in a psych ward. You're seeing all these distressing traumatic events, you have a really good ability to be very strong. But the downside of that is you have the ability not to shut down and and not talk to anyone because for me as condition free I don't like psychiatrists or psychologists because they are the person who would take my mind away and that's that's quite a common experience for most people. But I also think lived experience so what they call children who grew up in my situation, my sister course lived experts now on of course, that experience, and I think that there should be once a child is identified living in one of these situations, they should be automatically allocated to someone with lived experience as an adult. And all it takes is basically doesn't need to be money, it means maybe once a month or once every couple of weeks, the lived experience person might take a group of him or go meet him in a, in a mutual venue, obviously, for certain reasons and, and just tell him the stories and say, right, you know you're going through a crappy situation, it's not normal. You know, I went through that and I am. But what you got to do is you can't let it down, you can't get angry at your mom, this is what bipolar is, this is what schizophrenia is, and actually talk to them like adults, because they see things in the home, or they experience things in a home, which most adults will never experience. It took, we talk to them like kids, they're not kids. They're young adults from a very early age. But I think having mentors and having people with lived experience actually assigned to kids, especially in regional cities a bit different, there is peak people at satellite foundation in city and I do bring kids from regional areas, but regional areas where it suffers the most. So once that's identified, and obviously, social workers, you know, I don't, I can't remember having a social worker really allocated to us for an extensive extensive period of time at all, which definitely hurt. But my advice to anyone in this thing is, is start when you do all these donations and these fundraising for beyond beyond that they are great. However, I would say Google children of parents who have mental illness, I would say, look up the foundation in your state, I would say probably allocate your money towards that if you can, I'm not saying one's more important than the other, I'm just saying that the work that they can do in this field, can directly change the course of a kid's future. You know, if you can grab a kid eight years old, and say, right, I've been in your situation, I can see like this, this guy's a man, he knows what I'm going through with me, I'll go or whatever. And he's going to do this, right? I'm not going to, I'm going to block out this, I'm going to work out, I'm going to focus, you know, that's immense. Doesn't seem like much, it doesn't take much. But that doesn't happen. And there are foundations, let's say like Foundation, and ones like this, that are sort of trying to bridge gaps between parents and young people in the community. And that's my experience with it. And I'm very passionate about it, because as I said, there's hardly any awareness about it. So I appreciate what you're doing in regards to your your mental health research, because it's, as you said, it started off with your bio history. And it's now morphed into mental health because it's something you're passionate about, as a franchise is experienced, obviously told you my experience with it. And obviously, you hope that your work can obviously help allay future generations often, one of

the things you've seen is a common problem is that people deal with the symptoms of these illnesses, things like electro convulsive therapy, which is hardly known how or why it works. Lithium, and you get a habituation problem actually makes more, there's a wonderful book called anatomy of an epidemic, which is talking about the the kinds of crises about the drugs people use to treat mental illness, which is why I think it's all the more important to do. I think what you're saying is great. And it's important to look after the kids. But it's also very important to try and look at the root cause of the things to Sepik. And if we can, if we can take away what bring them out in the first place. That may be the best approach, I believe.

Yeah, I definitely think that is the way to go. But I think in terms of the welfare side of it, I think impact can be made now. You know, as I said, you got a bunch of kids in these homes first, make sure they're safe. Now, it's not always the safest environment living with someone who's bipolar, schizophrenic and maybe every week fits to do suicide or something like that. And the nice thing to me is I knew my mom really well so I could I used to I could tell when she was about to you know go off the rails I knew it but no they won't trade anything until the cops are cool. So I couldn't call the cops I couldn't I would tell my uncle I could tell my aunt you know she's not worth the money we try and tell them now now now we've got to wait until she gets so badly called the cops then we have you know I mean like that's a much of Australian there is on the system at the moment which is quite frustrating for me that they appreciated me speaking and appreciate all the the work you're doing it so maybe two years are saying or one to two years you're looking at starting to do

some trials and we're going to have some treatments we're going to be able to test on humans at times yeah.

Okay, so people want to find out more about that sort of stuff is the isn your clinical work can actually look this stuff up by a history as well. There's Don't worry about

the mental illness itself but the bow history.org is where the there's some videos that shows how the basic thing works.

And we have that on a gym as well. So you click the main gym tab on gyms.net scroll to the bottom we got the 1234

stages available have more time to come we'll do more Yeah,

and hopefully do something on mental health stuff a bit more because obviously you're starting to do the the clinic we can do some content around that and you put some content your website in exactly what you're trying to do. I think it's important for people to know because an online thing I see all the time what it's doing is greedy, greedy, rich man or whatever. But I know for a fact that you put a lot of your money into trying to make the world a better place and especially with Jasmine to almost anything you can do to help future generations regarding this would be great, you know, and we appreciate appreciate you how much money and effort you do put in it and your time today. So alright. So there you have it. The Jim Penman, the founder of Jim's mowing, you've seen the bucket hat you see everywhere if you are listening outside Australia's pool of Australia's most famous entrepreneurs and I'm very lucky to call him a friend and I have a regular contact with him daily so I'm pretty well but it was very kind of him to give me that platform first started doing the podcast and just basically talking him for 25 minutes about the challenges and my real experience with having a bipolar mother. I just think it's important to get this message out there regarding children with parents who are serious minnows, because it's something that's not often talked about enough. As you know, if you do listen to this podcast, I'm really big on that because I think that a lot of awareness has been raised for depression and anxiety, and not so much in regards to this space. So if you did stay to the end, really, really appreciate it. Please feel free to leave me a review on iTunes or just follow the podcast or you can find me at the with the experience online as well. I have people send me an occasional message Don't feel bad. If you do that. You want to reach out to me, please do that and hope you enjoyed the show. And we'll see you next week.